Qing Dai - Chinese Herb Effective in Resolving Colitis

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garylouisville
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Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 9088
   Posted 9/4/2013 7:06 PM (GMT -6)   
If you know you will get worse while tapering the pred then I would go ahead and take the herb now. If you don't get worse during the taper then you have some kind of proof that it is at least doing something.
Asacol 800mgs 1 pillsX3; VSL#3 112.5mgs 1 pillX2; Prescrip Assist Probiotic 1 pill X 2;Vitamin D3 5000 ius 1 pillX2;Bentyl;DAO;Folic acid

Discontinued: Robinul; Natural - peppermint oil, Inflaguard (Boswellia), Pepto Bismol, Omega 3 fish oil, Imodium, Beano, Lactaid;Zymactive, Renew Life Probiotic 80 billion, Florastor, DGL, Monolaurin, slippery elm;black cherry concentrate

Gonk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 600
   Posted 9/4/2013 7:44 PM (GMT -6)   
I have no idea what will happen when I taper - I did 10 days at 40mg with no taper the first time. This will be a longer, more standard course as we aren't messing with Uceris this time around.
But I hear what you're saying, g, thanks. I may as well give it a go now. Maybe it helps enough to somewhat shorten the pred course or temper the taper, for $12 I'll give it a shot.
43 Year Old Male,
First flare up in 1998, dx 2001
Asacol for first 10 years, now Lialda 4/day, plus Canasa and Rowasa as needed. LDN as of Feb 24, 2012. Started prednisone 40mg 7/9/13, stopped 7/18/13. Started Uceris 7/17/13.
Supplements include: Fish Oil, Psyllium, Bosswellia, Turmeric, Bromelain, Vitamins C, D, DHEA

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3879
   Posted 9/5/2013 6:19 AM (GMT -6)   
I took Isatis Cooling years ago, after a few days it gave me some of the worst gut cramping of my life.
But that is me,so give it a shot I guess.
Old Mike

freddyj
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 1284
   Posted 9/5/2013 4:27 PM (GMT -6)   
People there are at least 2 different plants.. I repeat at least 2.. that are being discussed here. Isatis is a genus of mustard family plants, sometimes used medicinally, but not whats in "CC herbal", at least I dont think it is. The plant that produces the "blueish powder" that is apparently the correct plant, the same one that is in "cc herbal", is not an Isatis as far as I can tell. It may very well go by the same folk name in China- "Qing dai", but it is not the same thing.

This is the problem with folk taxonomy, calling something "goldenrod" for example, it is not scientific, or specific, and can literally be describing dozens or hundreds of species of plants. Thats why science has scientific names for species, so that 2 people communicating in whatever languages or cultures can be sure they are discussing the same species. Calling something by its "common" or "folk" name can often be heinously misleading.

The Isatis is a yellow flowered mustard, while the other "Qing dai", which I believe produces the blue powder, appears to have a blue or violet flower (from the pictures Ive seen online), so is in a totally different family, let alone genus and species. The info is so sketchy I can't really even find a proper genus and species for that plant, but havent looked that hard. My point is, there are two things out there, and I think some of you are ordering the wrong thing.

Before you go medicating yourselves at least make sure you have the right plant and dont expect the people selling it to make it clear. Im all for herbs and believe in their use and efficacy- within reason. I just dont trust randoms who show up on boards with 10 or less posts and claim to suddenly want to share with the world how great a particular supplement has been, or shady internet herb dealers for that matter.

Most folks come to message boards like this because they are desperate and suffering, and when their symptoms resolve, they go away and live their lives. Be cautious about the folks who werent posting here when they were sick, suffering, confused, and looking for a cure, but suddenly had the motivation to make an account and post when they found something that has helped them. Yeah right. People are just generally too selfish for that and that behavior is bassackwards!
currently on:
Asacol 1.6 g/3X per day
Transdermal LDN 4.5 mg/day
Various supplements
And no Quincy, Im not on mesalamine enemas.
didnt work for me.

garylouisville
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 9088
   Posted 9/5/2013 4:46 PM (GMT -6)   
I took the plunge today and ordered CCHerbal. They are two completely different supplements.
Asacol 800mgs 1 pillsX3; VSL#3 112.5mgs 1 pillX2; Prescrip Assist Probiotic 1 pill X 2;Vitamin D3 5000 ius 1 pillX2;Bentyl;DAO;Folic acid

Discontinued: Robinul; Natural - peppermint oil, Inflaguard (Boswellia), Pepto Bismol, Omega 3 fish oil, Imodium, Beano, Lactaid;Zymactive, Renew Life Probiotic 80 billion, Florastor, DGL, Monolaurin, slippery elm;black cherry concentrate

Malkavian
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 1439
   Posted 9/6/2013 10:34 AM (GMT -6)   
This study is really poorly designed. There are only 9 patients, no healthy controls, no placebo controls, it's not double-blind, and there are absolutely no useful mechanistic data presented.

twiggs
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 801
   Posted 9/6/2013 10:48 AM (GMT -6)   
I would do the pred to get things under control dont you think? That is more likely to get you where you need to be to just be able to function. I would then try the Qing Dai after you stabilize...

Keep it as simple as you can until you stabilize and can handle adding something new..
Dx'd Crohn's/Colitis 2/2012
Current meds: 6/1/13
8/2/13 Asacol hd 3x2 for one more week then 2x2 per doc.
Back on Canasa 7/15 for 6 weeks. Then stopping to see what happens per doc.
Multivitamin, Vit D3 2000iu, L-Glutamine 1- 500mg x2 Morn and Even with meal.
cipro/flagyl 2 weeks for Flare (ended 6/15/13)
IgG testing revealed allergy to Eggs. Eliminating completely as of 8/2/13.

plumsmom
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts : 81
   Posted 9/6/2013 12:14 PM (GMT -6)   
@freddyj I take offense that just because someone is new to this forum we must be liars for sharing our experiences. I just found this forum a few weeks ago and only started posting last week as having UC is just something I was totally uncomfortable discussing, even anonymously. I am a real person. I suffer and bleed in the toilet like mod everyone else here and darn, yes, I happy to have somehow turned a corner within the last week and am happily sharing my experiences. I think we all have enough negativity in our lives living with UC and getting it on this board because we are new just blows.
Diagnosed with ulcerative colitis/proctitis late 2011
PrevRX: asacol 4 pills/3X per day & canasa suppositories nightly
Current lifestyle: eating paleo less eggs & nightshades, stress reduction via exercise (running, hiking, yoga)
Current herbal supplements: probiotic, fish oil, vitamineral green, triphala, inflama-gi, CCHerbal & bone broth daily

cjcgirl
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 10/8/2013 10:23 PM (GMT -6)   
@ HM Kim, can you post the Korean chat room website? I am very interested learning more about how you treat UC in Korea.
colonoscopy 2010, diagnosed with ulcerative colitis at age 2.
current meds: apriso 0.375g 4 times a day, glutamine, colostrum, whey protein with almond milk, omega 3, liquid multivitamin, vsl #3,
diet: very limited brwon rice, quinoa, veggie & salmon.
previous diet: gluten free, then sugar trigger flare up in may 2013.

pmitra0123
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2012
Total Posts : 325
   Posted 10/30/2013 3:47 AM (GMT -6)   
For those that were going to try this, how did it work out?
Diagnosed with pancolitis March 2012 - Tried all drugs - steroids, mesalamine, etc. Currently on Vedolizumab (new experimental gut specficic monoclonal antibody) Currently, my entire colon has healed except for rectum and recto sigmoid - these ares are the most stubborn for me - nothing seems to work there except for very high doses of steroids

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3014
   Posted 10/30/2013 9:21 AM (GMT -6)   
This fits perfectly into bringing harmful neutrophils under control. In bad flares mine are 50% beyond the normal range and responsible for the damage.

Unfortunately I have 'Dong Quai' on hand not Qing Dai - seems local shops do not offer it so will have to purchase over the web.

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3014
   Posted 11/29/2013 2:46 AM (GMT -6)   
2 week wait ended and my Qing Dai finally arrived and it is great I lifted weights for over an hour and felt terrific after just 2 days.

I put the blue indigo material into a green tea cup because I also rely on green tea as well as NAC to curb neutrophils....will get weekly labs tomorrow and see if QingDai had any effect on my usually high neutrophil count.

tap
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 474
   Posted 11/29/2013 6:46 AM (GMT -6)   
@aguywithuc are you consuming two grams per day as noted in the study?

I had one gram two times a day from 9/22 through 11/02 and I noticed that my body was doing a better job processing the foods that I ate after about three weeks in that I no longer could see bits of salad in my stool. As of lately my stools have no discernible food items so I am assuming that the Qing Dai has helped in the healing of my digestive tract.

For some reason I have also started to put on weight (8 pounds in the last three weeks) but it may be just because winter is approaching and we keep the house at 65 degrees during the day and 62 at night. I have been voraciously hungry for the last several weeks although it seems like my appetite is getting somewhat back to normal. Seems like a good time to start doing some intense exercise to see if I can put on some additional muscle.
48 - male - Diagnosed with pancolitis in 1998
Status: 2 stools a day
Vitamin D3 - 10000 IU 2-3 times per week (Status: 50 ng/ML);
Lialda - 2400mg 1 time per day
Perfect Health Diet

franny19
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 251
   Posted 11/29/2013 12:37 PM (GMT -6)   
Is this not the same virtually as CC Herbal?

tap
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 474
   Posted 12/20/2013 6:59 AM (GMT -6)   
I bought my Qing Dai from Acupuncture Atlanta.

King of the Toilet
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2013
Total Posts : 96
   Posted 1/6/2014 10:33 PM (GMT -6)   
I bought some qing dai powder from ebay, along with empty capsules. I take fours capsules of qing dai per day, that's about 4g. I have definitely seen a fair improvement and have no side effects. I began seeing results at the second day, soon enough as is the case with all the things that have helped me. Others might have to wait longer.

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3014
   Posted 1/7/2014 1:15 AM (GMT -6)   
Gonk said...
I received my Qing Dai / Isatis today. I guess I'll take one twice a day to start. But I also had to go back on prednisone last night, 40mg, so I won't be able to tell if the Qing Dai is doing anything. Should I hold off? Maybe start it when I begin to taper the pred?


As soon as I had taken it for a day I felt 'healthy' again. What I mean is during a bad flare I get weak, pred makes me weaker and previous attempt to weight train thru the pred resulted in cardiovascular damage in the left arm so I just surrender and get skinny-fat.

So after taking this I found myself in my weight room loving lifting and have lifted ever since, the gross pred fat is disappearing and I am getting husky again.

My next shipment has not arrived from china so I backed off. I dont need pred but my adrenals are shutdown so I have no choice but I cut the pred in half then cut it some more.

I am paying 50 bucks for this stuff, would be interested to know if these 'cheap' versions are effective for people.

Qing Dai
Psyllium seed powder + Wheat grass powder + Intestinew
RS diet
Asacol HD

My bloodwork during all this testing over 8 weeks showed plunging neutrophils and platelets, over 50% drop and still going down.

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3014
   Posted 1/7/2014 1:23 AM (GMT -6)   
enfyre said...
@Aguywithuc

Where did you get your Qing Dai?


Its not cheap..

Supplier: Tcmtreatment Shopping Center
http://www.tcmtreatment.com
tcmtreatment@163.net

1 $54.00 USD GRANULE147 50 sachets of Granule147: Natural Indigo (qing dai) in the form of quick-dissolving granule
$54.00 USD Subtotal
Free Shipping and Packaging

tap
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 474
   Posted 1/7/2014 8:01 AM (GMT -6)   
Here are two places that I have ordered from:

Acupunture Atlanta $11.12 for 100 grams plus $5.00 shipping.

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy $10.95 for 100 grams plus $15.90 shipping.

I had to order from Kamwo recently because Acupuncture Atlanta was out of stock but they now appear to have it stocked again. I like Acupuncture Atlanta's better as well because it has a slight texture to it that makes it slightly crunchy. The Qing Dia from Kamwo is finely ground powder.

Shan2013
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2012
Total Posts : 56
   Posted 1/8/2014 6:11 PM (GMT -6)   
I ordered some from Acupuncture Atlanta today. I get my shipment on the 20th.

CutieMyla
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 1/11/2014 11:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello,
So I always read the forums but never joined until now.
I was dignosed with UC Aug 2012 after months of not knowing what I had.
anyways I felt that I was never in remission, I had a horrible flare up this past summer, and never really recovered from it. So I bought Qing Dai after I read the forums from pacific mall in Toronto/Markham... I started Jan 1st 2014...im so thankful for all you guys writting about this. I feel soooo much better...i was going to the washroom 15+ times a day and now im not. I still have pain during BMs but im not losing blood now and urgencies are alot less.

Post Edited (CutieMila) : 1/12/2014 1:01:42 PM (GMT-7)


aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3014
   Posted 1/11/2014 11:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Malkavian said...
This study is really poorly designed. There are only 9 patients, no healthy controls, no placebo controls, it's not double-blind, and there are absolutely no useful mechanistic data presented.


Correct. So I rely on my own experience which is I felt 'healthy' within 48 hours of taking it instead of weak, anemic and deep in a flare. I started lifting weights again and never stopped taking it.

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3014
   Posted 1/11/2014 11:56 PM (GMT -6)   
CutieMila said...
Hello,
So I always read the forums but never joined until now.
I was dignosed with UC Aug 2012 after months of not knowing what I had.
anyways I felt that I was never in remission, I had a horrible flare up this past summer, and never really recovered from it. So I bought Qing Dai after I read the forums from pacific mall in Torontowashroom I started Jan 1st 2014...im so thankful for all you guys writting about this. I feel soooo much better...i was going to the washroom 15+ times a day and now im not. I still have pain during BMs but im not losing blood now and urgencies are alot less.


Cool story.

CutieMyla
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 1/12/2014 11:54 PM (GMT -6)   
@aguywithuc thank you...I feel great

MAMAHU11
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 1/15/2014 4:58 PM (GMT -6)   
hi everybody
i just receive my order from acupuncture Atlanta, i ordered Sunday. after i am reading this forum.
in first time sorry for my English but i am french.
this product is for my son, and i would like to know what and when is the best way to take this powder.
thank you for your help.
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