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Radical Induction Theory-Time to re-visit

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Ulcerative Colitis
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LowLead
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2022
Posts : 39
Posted 4/8/2022 2:53 PM (GMT -8)
Really good posts Mike!

This makes me wonder if the extreme aerophagia I go through on a nightly basis is playing a role. Since I have sleep apnea, I use positive airway pressure therapy which forces massive amounts of air into my intestines. I was on Bi-Level therapy which reduces that side effect, but had to switch back to continuous level therapy due to insurance reasons. My UC flared that same month.
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Old Mike
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2007
Posts : 4074
Posted 4/8/2022 4:00 PM (GMT -8)
No real idea on that. Air in the stomach is one thing,probably not bad,excess oxygen in the
intestine perhaps not good. Are you sure air actually gets into your intestine,which is mostly
oxygen free I believe.
Also be aware I was never able to cure myself.
Oldmike
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LowLead
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2022
Posts : 39
Posted 4/8/2022 4:21 PM (GMT -8)

Old Mike said...
Are you sure air actually gets into your intestine,which is mostly
oxygen free I believe.

Air, yes, since the throat is pressurized, it can squeeze into the esophagus at certain pressures, and pass out the other end at very high volumes (speaking from experience).

I don’t discredit your efforts to find answers. You’ve had this condition since before I was born and have no doubt read and tried more than me. I’m just wanting to do what I can to prevent long term oxidative damage, with or without a suppressed immune system!
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quincy
Elite Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 33538
Posted 4/8/2022 8:12 PM (GMT -8)
LowLead...but you want it with or without meds?
q
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LowLead
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2022
Posts : 39
Posted 4/8/2022 8:14 PM (GMT -8)

quincy said...
LowLead...but you want it with or without meds?
q


I’m not sure I follow. I’m currently on medication that doesn’t modulate my immune system.
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quincy
Elite Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 33538
Posted 4/9/2022 7:50 AM (GMT -8)
LL...maybe add it into your signature?
q
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Old Mike
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2007
Posts : 4074
Posted 4/9/2022 8:03 AM (GMT -8)
We know that too much oxygen or peroxide/ROS in the colon is not good. So going a bit over the top here as to a different solution.
Hydrogen.
Acarbose,well it is a prescription,so would not want to use it. But read the study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc3847430/

hydrogen water
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc5330822/

You can make hydrogen water using a hydrogen generator,or from amazon search hydrogen water tablets.
Now little hydrogen can dissolve in water,drinking it wil probably not get to the colon. I suspect it will diffuse
into the blood stream. Would that work,no idea. The water tablets contain mag metal in powder form when
reacted with water makes hydrogen and mag hydroxide.

I kept searching,newer bigger study.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19490976.2021.2013764

here is a pre Pravda paper on oxidation I just found
https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1082&context=bmepubs

different paper lots of references
https://www.cell.com/trends/molecular-medicine/fulltext/s1471-4914(20)30157-x

vitamin B2
https://www.cell.com/trends/molecular-medicine/fulltext/s1471-4914(20)30157-x#back-bb0430

Since I could not fix myself perhaps I can help fix someone.

Oldmike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/9/2022 11:24:49 AM (GMT-6)

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LowLead
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2022
Posts : 39
Posted 4/9/2022 2:54 PM (GMT -8)
Wow, interesting stuff! I actually supplemented *heavily* with L-Arginine during my powerlifting days. No GI issues then. I’m weary about any sort of vasodilator right now, but you and Jordan are just piling the evidence on top of an already insurmountable level.
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passer
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2007
Posts : 82
Posted 4/16/2022 7:26 AM (GMT -8)
This continues to be the most intriguing UC thread to me. Based on this thread, I have started supplementing the following:

Vitamin E: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001778T4E?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

COQ10: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y1ZR5R3?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Probutyrate: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075BRR1JJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Grape seed extract: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NL8XTQ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Sulforaphane Glucosinolate: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004FUHIJM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Milk Thistle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019ZFQFB8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

VanJordan eloquently explained why consuming Glutathione doesn't really help per the below:

"Unfortunately, you can't just consume GSH, SOD, and GSTP to fix the problem. They aren't able to make their way from digestion to cells and ultimately get destroyed. You can get GSH IVs, but they clear the kidneys in less than 2 hours. It's like saying that the plants in this house need watering (oxidized antioxidants), so let's go buy a bunch of plants that are already full of water (reduced antioxidants) and put them in the house (take reduced antioxidant supplements). You'll have more watered plants in the house, but it won't make the dry plants wet. For that you need a continuous watering mechanism (functional reducing enzymes)."

I came across a liposomal version here and figured I'd run it by this thread in case it's compelling: https://www.quicksilverscientific.com/all-products/glutathione/

Thanks again for everything folks!
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VanJordan
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 4/16/2022 11:56 AM (GMT -8)
Great! Let us know how it goes.

Liposomal GSH is a gimmick, in my opinion. It's bioavailable and does stuff to the body, but not in the way that UC patients need. If you really want to try though, it won't hurt. The rest of what you got is more likely to help!
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Hambo88
Regular Member
Joined : Feb 2018
Posts : 257
Posted 4/17/2022 1:39 AM (GMT -8)
0

Old Mike said...
We know that too much oxygen or peroxide/ROS in the colon is not good. So going a bit over the top here as to a different solution.
Hydrogen.
Acarbose,well it is a prescription,so would not want to use it. But read the study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc3847430/

hydrogen water
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc5330822/

You can make hydrogen water using a hydrogen generator,or from amazon search hydrogen water tablets.
Now little hydrogen can dissolve in water,drinking it wil probably not get to the colon. I suspect it will diffuse
into the blood stream. Would that work,no idea. The water tablets contain mag metal in powder form when
reacted with water makes hydrogen and mag hydroxide.

I kept searching,newer bigger study.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19490976.2021.2013764

here is a pre Pravda paper on oxidation I just found
https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1082&context=bmepubs

different paper lots of references
https://www.cell.com/trends/molecular-medicine/fulltext/s1471-4914(20)30157-x

vitamin B2
https://www.cell.com/trends/molecular-medicine/fulltext/s1471-4914(20)30157-x#back-bb0430

Since I could not fix myself perhaps I can help fix someone.

Oldmike


i just thinking about hydrogen water...
maybe i buy this kind of machine
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VanJordan
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 4/17/2022 11:55 AM (GMT -8)

Hambo88 said...
i just thinking about hydrogen water...
maybe i buy this kind of machine

If you do, please let us know if it helps you!
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passer
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2007
Posts : 82
Posted 4/20/2022 8:07 AM (GMT -8)
Still eagerly awaiting Pravda's paper that is currently in review.

In the meantime, I reached out to Life Extension about the "600 mg R-dihydrolipoic Acid (R-DHLA)" that Pravda mentions in this paper: https://www.hilarispublisher.com/open-access/novel-combination-therapy-induced-histological-remission-in-patientswith-refractory-ulcerative-colitis.pdf

Life Extension pointed me to this: https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item01208/super-r-lipoic-acid

VanJordan, I think you had previously mentioned that you had a bad experience with a product similar to this? I'm trying to read between the lines here as much as possible in terms of Pravda's protocol.
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VanJordan
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 4/20/2022 5:24 PM (GMT -8)

passer said...
Still eagerly awaiting Pravda's paper that is currently in review.

In the meantime, I reached out to Life Extension about the "600 mg R-dihydrolipoic Acid (R-DHLA)" that Pravda mentions in this paper: https://www.hilarispublisher.com/open-access/novel-combination-therapy-induced-histological-remission-in-patientswith-refractory-ulcerative-colitis.pdf

Life Extension pointed me to this: https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item01208/super-r-lipoic-acid

VanJordan, I think you had previously mentioned that you had a bad experience with a product similar to this? I'm trying to read between the lines here as much as possible in terms of Pravda's protocol.

R-lipoic acid is not the same thing as R-dihydrolipoic acid. As far as I know, there is no R-DHLA anywhere on the market. I wonder how Pravda obtained it for his experiments. I am also skeptical that R-DHLA is the key to this whole thing. His previous papers had many different things added to his protocols.

For me, lipoic acid is risky because it chelates heavy metals and other stuff in the body that can trigger detox reactions, which for me would cause UC to flare. So I avoid lipoic acid supplements, personally. Every time I try ALA, I start getting UC symptoms. So I doubt it's curative.
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GrittyHope
Regular Member
Joined : Mar 2022
Posts : 91
Posted 4/20/2022 5:37 PM (GMT -8)
I finally just read Pravda’s paper linked to here about the combined therapy. It raises a few questions for me that I wonder if others have seen addressed elsewhere:

- I know budesonide is less systemically absorbed, but is it advisable as part of a long-term combined enema treatment, as the paper seems to suggest? Or would the steroid be dropped from the enema compound after remission was achieved?

- for those of us with 5-ASA intolerances, it boggles my mind that there haven’t been alternative anti-inflammatories discovered. I’m disappointed this protocol wouldn’t work for us and wonder if Pravda’s research could ultimately lead to other (non-biologic or immunosuppressant) treatment cocktails that are sensitive to this theory of what’s going on in our beautiful terrible colons.
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VanJordan
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 4/20/2022 7:41 PM (GMT -8)

GrittyHope said...
I finally just read Pravda’s paper linked to here about the combined therapy. It raises a few questions for me that I wonder if others have seen addressed elsewhere:

- I know budesonide is less systemically absorbed, but is it advisable as part of a long-term combined enema treatment, as the paper seems to suggest? Or would the steroid be dropped from the enema compound after remission was achieved?

- for those of us with 5-ASA intolerances, it boggles my mind that there haven’t been alternative anti-inflammatories discovered. I’m disappointed this protocol wouldn’t work for us and wonder if Pravda’s research could ultimately lead to other (non-biologic or immunosuppressant) treatment cocktails that are sensitive to this theory of what’s going on in our beautiful terrible colons.

It's hard to make suggestions from a study that was essentially experimental, so nobody is able to say if one aspect of the formulation should be dropped or something else added. Hopefully Pravda's future paper will clarify.

5-ASA intolerances are, 9 times out of 10, due to additives. If you're taking the suppository form, try switching to the enema form. I personally can't tolerate either, but I know that many UC patients I've spoken to over the years who had bad results from the suppository had better results from the liquid enema.

Deep research on 5-ASAs reveals that the medical professional community doesn't fully understand why they work in UC, but Pravda has indicated in his writings that it's likely because they combat hydrogen peroxide.
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LowLead
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2022
Posts : 39
Posted 4/21/2022 1:05 PM (GMT -8)
Are there any lab tests worth performing that are reasonably priced out of pocket? Something like a glutathione total blood test?

https://www.walkinlab.com/products/view/glutathione-total-blood-test
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VanJordan
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 4/21/2022 5:22 PM (GMT -8)

LowLead said...
Are there any lab tests worth performing that are reasonably priced out of pocket? Something like a glutathione total blood test?

https://www.walkinlab.com/products/view/glutathione-total-blood-test

I don't think this test would be helpful because, even if it can tell you accurately that you have low GSH, that may not be the reason for your high hydrogen peroxide.

You could easily test this by taking things like silymarin (milkthistle), which naturally increase SOD; or glycine and NAC which are used by the body to make GSH. If those don't help your condition then it means it isn't a GSH problem.
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Old Mike
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2007
Posts : 4074
Posted 4/25/2022 7:52 AM (GMT -8)
Putting this here for reference,looked into later info not much,but never saw this before.
Probably no effect in humans,but coenzyme A or lack of it might be a problem.

Vitamin B5

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/jgh3.12212

slow to load a pravda article might have been posted in the past
https://www.hilarispublisher.com/open-access/sustained-histologic-remission-complete-mucosal-healing-12-years-after-onetime-treatment-of-refractory-ulcerative-colitis-with-nov-45381.html#11

good butyrate info
https://cris.maastrichtuniversity.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/1119208/guid-527a4eae-a777-4e75-9305-fc0980f65078-asset1.0.pdf

oldmike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/30/2022 11:04:49 AM (GMT-6)

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LowLead
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2022
Posts : 39
Posted 5/14/2022 2:44 PM (GMT -8)
My pharmacy ordered in the name brand Lialda instead of generic mesalamine. At the same time, I started taking milk thistle extract, and I’m feeling quite a bit better. I wish I knew which one to attribute it to, but I started both at the same time. Only 175mg per day with milk thistle.

I had a setback where I needed to pull an all nighter, which erased a lot of my progress. A lack of sleep makes my condition MUCH worse, and my intestines take days to recover from it.

However, I’m quickly approaching where I was at prior to that little setback, and I do attribute my regains to either the brand switch, or adding milk thistle extract!
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passer
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2007
Posts : 82
Posted 5/20/2022 9:20 AM (GMT -8)
This company, which had come up with a probiotic to lower A1C (worked for my mom in three months - from 5.7 down to 5) has now come up with a product for gut health that claims to help with butyrate production: https://pendulumlife.com/products/pendulum-gi-repair-cbut-membership

Thoughts?
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LowLead
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2022
Posts : 39
Posted 6/22/2022 12:57 AM (GMT -8)

passer said...
This company, which had come up with a probiotic to lower A1C (worked for my mom in three months - from 5.7 down to 5) has now come up with a product for gut health that claims to help with butyrate production: https://pendulumlife.com/products/pendulum-gi-repair-cbut-membership

Thoughts?


It looks like you can increase fecal butyrate by up to 36% by eating oat bran. Probably a lot cheaper, too.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12769445/
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LowLead
Regular Member
Joined : Apr 2022
Posts : 39
Posted 8/16/2022 5:34 PM (GMT -8)
Two updates to post:

First, a new Pravda article is out:

https:// https://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/full/v28/i31/4263.htm?fbclid=iwar0nxkuxbgdjaflmufsil1upsg3j7s9tf5wztef7ihsszcfnwemkkgjiz-c

Second, NAC will be allowed to stay on the market for now due to enforcement discretion citing a low use risk:

https://www.nutritionaloutlook.com/view/fda-publishes-final-guidance-on-nac-will-exercise-a-policy-of-enforcement-discretion
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VanJordan
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 8/16/2022 6:01 PM (GMT -8)
Good to know about NAC. Butyrate in general is promoted with whole grains.

I'm still combing through Pravda's paper. So far it looks very promising. Can't wait to discuss it more with those willing.
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VanJordan
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 8/16/2022 6:12 PM (GMT -8)
Dr. Pravda's latest study, release date is August 21, 2022:
https://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/full/v28/i31/4263.htm
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