A breakthrough in probiotics: Clostridium butyricum regulates gut homeostasis and anti-inflammatory

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Old Mike
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   Posted 5/6/2015 3:41 AM (GMT -7)   
Hot off the press.
Ok we have known about this stuff for a long time.
 
Well found some. But it contains other bacteria also.
 
they carry it on amazon just search probiotic-3
expensive
Most probiotics including lacto fermented veggies make me worse.
I am afraid of probiotics.
But might force myself to give these a shot.
If you look under research in the actual product link they had a UC trial, 45% remission rate, not all
that great,seemed in increase bifido, which might make me worse.
Old Mike
 
 
 

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 3/4/2016 12:13:53 PM (GMT-7)


garylouisville
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   Posted 5/6/2015 4:12 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks. 45% is better than a lot of UC treatments.
Pentasa (500mg) 2 pills X 2; VSL 1 pill X 2; Prescrip Assist Probiotic 1 pill X 2; Grape seed extract (1)400mg X 3; Vitamin D3 (1) 5,000 IU X 2; daily generic Allegra; DAO as needed due to dietary histamine intolerance

Gave me trouble: Zymactive, Renew Life Probiotic 80 billion, Florastor, high histamine foods

momto2boys
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Date Joined Jun 2013
Total Posts : 1866
   Posted 5/6/2015 4:41 AM (GMT -7)   
Sounds interesting. I struggle with adding new strains, they always make me worse for a week or two. I may consider this. Going to check my u-biome results for this bacteria now.
39 yrs old diagnosed with proctosigmoiditis 6/13/13
meds- 2 Lialda supplements: probiotics (1 VSL3 cap, 1 culturelle and 1 reuteri) 1 gram krill Oil, 5-500mg tabs psyllium husks and 3/4 tsp l-glutamine. Zyrtec for seasonal allergies as needed. Allergic to sulfites. Currently gluten/dairy free (except yogurt) and eating lots of RS (potato starch, green banana smoothie and various beans).

therearemiracles
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Date Joined Dec 2006
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   Posted 5/6/2015 6:43 AM (GMT -7)   
When I was reading I thought you wrote, INCrease LIbo, not Bifido, I was so excited! I had to re read it again. Yea, probiotics make me worse with diarreah and my one GI said "you don't need probiotics" ....I will try these and if they don't work out, I will add to my other 50 bottles of crap that didn't work! HHAHAHAH right, don't we all have a drawer or drawers like this??

Indycat23
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Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 661
   Posted 5/6/2015 10:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Any ideas on the recommended dosage? The probiotics I have found online only contain a small amount of Clostridium butyricum (1.5 MM is the most I've seen).
 
45% is better than Entyvio so definitely worth a try!
Diagnosed 3/2011 w/ pancolitis
Current Meds-Colazal, Rowasa(3/2/15) VSL & Entyvio-(8/5/14)
Prednisone from 4/1/11 to 10/31/14--finally done!!

Failed/Tried-Remi, Imuran, Humira & Simponi

2015 Plan---Remission or Surgery..time to get on with life.

garylouisville
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Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 9088
   Posted 5/6/2015 11:06 AM (GMT -7)   
I may add this to my regimen. I just put it in my Amazon cart. Now I just have to pull the trigger.
Pentasa (500mg) 2 pills X 2; VSL 1 pill X 2; Prescrip Assist Probiotic 1 pill X 2; Grape seed extract (1)400mg X 3; Vitamin D3 (1) 5,000 IU X 2; daily generic Allegra; DAO as needed due to dietary histamine intolerance

Gave me trouble: Zymactive, Renew Life Probiotic 80 billion, Florastor, high histamine foods

deltaforce
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 2242
   Posted 5/6/2015 2:17 PM (GMT -7)   
Get Miyarisan Strong instead, from ebay, seller must be from Japan.
Dx 03/2007, left sided UC. Currently in flare
Sulfasalazine 1.5gm 4X a day, Vit. B12, 1mg, 1 tablet, Fish oil 2400mg , Butyrate 2-3 caps, Vit D 5000 IU, Benebiotics 2caps, Canasa,

Verapamil 320mg for migraine, Nabumetone 750mg as an abortive
uBiome discount 10% off any kit http://bit.ly/1xYWjbG

xy123
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Date Joined Feb 2014
Total Posts : 678
   Posted 5/6/2015 3:11 PM (GMT -7)   
Old Mike said...
Most probiotics including lacto fermented veggies make me worse.


Old Mike


OM, do you have any idea about why this happens? I can't eat lacto fermented foods and drinks either. At first I thought it was related to my casein sensitivity but lacto fermented pickles(Brine pickles) also make me worse. They are also powerful migraine inducers for me and my migraines are generally connected to my digestive system problems.

Maybe lactic acid is a part of the problem (at least) ha? Do you have any idea about your case or general?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21301922

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20671614

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9505002

Old Mike
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Date Joined Jan 2007
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   Posted 5/6/2015 3:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Looks like the real stuff, also on amazon.
Old Mike

pb4
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Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 5/6/2015 3:17 PM (GMT -7)   
xy123,

think casein issues are more of an allergy and lactose is the intolerance from my understanding of the two. Are you lactose intolerant or do you have a casein allergy?
DX with Crohn's Disease in 1991 shortly after becoming ill. CD was affecting small and large bowel & anus (perianal crohn's skin tags) & rectum for first 2 yrs of becoming sick, CD remained constant in colon (Crohn's colitis) & anus with anal tags, intolerant to oral meds. Currently on Humira (Feb 2014) once a week and B12, Vitamin A and Omega's daily. In remission but trying to combat IBS D/C.

London Lurker
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Date Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts : 1045
   Posted 5/6/2015 3:25 PM (GMT -7)   
xy123 - can't recall now the name of the poster who posts about histamine often but could that be part of it for you? Trouble with pickles is that they are high in histamine and some can't take that.

xy123
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Date Joined Feb 2014
Total Posts : 678
   Posted 5/6/2015 3:25 PM (GMT -7)   
I have casein intolerance. Makes me flare(increases colonic inflammation) and causes sensitivity symptoms. I also have lactose intolerance.

xy123
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Date Joined Feb 2014
Total Posts : 678
   Posted 5/6/2015 3:29 PM (GMT -7)   
London Lurker thanks! Such a good point. I've forgotten that fermented foods are high in histamine. Problem most probably solved now.

Old Mike
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3790
   Posted 5/6/2015 3:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Well if you get migraines might be connected with histamine.
Whether that is in fermented veggies not sure.
But since I cant take probiotics anymore, or even a 1/8 of a fresh homemade fermented pickle,
I suspect the bacteria themselves.  I thought I might do real well with homemade pickles, it
was a disaster.
My guess is just any increase in bacterial load my colon/immune system gets very excited in a bad way.
I seem to be able to take limited amounts of DDS 100  bacteria.
Have not taken for some time.
I notice when I was getting some rectal abscesses that it seemed to stop their formation.
http://www.iherb.com/UAS-Labs-DDS-Probiotics-DDS-Acidophilus-5-Billion-CFU-100-Veggie-Caps-Discontinued-Item/13106
Old Mike

xy123
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Date Joined Feb 2014
Total Posts : 678
   Posted 5/6/2015 3:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Can you get rectal abscesses with uc? Did they response to antibiotics (if you used any) ?

pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 5/6/2015 3:52 PM (GMT -7)   
Ah that sucks xy123, I have lactose intolerance so I can use lactaid pills and products, must be awful to have casein intolerance since far as I know you have to avoid it all together.
DX with Crohn's Disease in 1991 shortly after becoming ill. CD was affecting small and large bowel & anus (perianal crohn's skin tags) & rectum for first 2 yrs of becoming sick, CD remained constant in colon (Crohn's colitis) & anus with anal tags, intolerant to oral meds. Currently on Humira (Feb 2014) once a week and B12, Vitamin A and Omega's daily. In remission but trying to combat IBS D/C.

Old Mike
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3790
   Posted 5/6/2015 4:00 PM (GMT -7)   
Sure can.
Both myself and son get or have gotten them.
They can respond to topical antibiotics and sitz baths.
Sometimes they might respond to systemic antibiotics but difficult for the antibiotic to penetrate.
I needed emergency surgery back in 1972 and was on antibiotics.
That was well before UC.
OM

Canada Mark
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Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 3481
   Posted 5/6/2015 4:04 PM (GMT -7)   
I haven't had SCD yogurt in some time. Two weeks ago I made a fresh batch and had 1 cup - No exaggeration, it was total colonoscopy prep type reaction... I might as well have taken ducolax and picosilax. I stayed away for two days and re-tried. Same reaction, but this time I stuck with it for 3 days... eventually the peeing out my @ss stopped... but things were weird. I haven't had it since.

The reaction is new to me. I used to eat SCD yogurt all the time, but the break from it must have changed things somehow. My body certainly didn't like it but there was no mucus or blood or anything. Literally just like I took a colon prep.

My suspicion is it was the bacterial loading... perhaps it would fully subside if I continued to eat it. Was not going to try though.

deltaforce
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Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 2242
   Posted 5/7/2015 6:29 AM (GMT -7)   
xy123 said...
Old Mike said...
Most probiotics including lacto fermented veggies make me worse.


Old Mike


OM, do you have any idea about why this happens? I can't eat lacto fermented foods and drinks either. At first I thought it was related to my casein sensitivity but lacto fermented pickles(Brine pickles) also make me worse. They are also powerful migraine inducers for me and my migraines are generally connected to my digestive system problems.

Maybe lactic acid is a part of the problem (at least) ha? Do you have any idea about your case or general?

@xy123,
Did you consider Histamine as a causative agent? I get migraines too and I have a strong suspicion of its connection to the GI system, but so far all my attempts to prove connections have failed. Got a new neuro lately and according to her, its not GI per se, but the inflammation related to UC is making rounds and thats triggering migraine.
Dx 03/2007, left sided UC. Currently in flare
Sulfasalazine 1.5gm 4X a day, Vit. B12, 1mg, 1 tablet, Fish oil 2400mg , Butyrate 2-3 caps, Vit D 5000 IU, Benebiotics 2caps, Canasa,

Verapamil 320mg for migraine, Nabumetone 750mg as an abortive
uBiome discount 10% off any kit http://bit.ly/1xYWjbG

aguywithuc
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2010
Total Posts : 3008
   Posted 5/7/2015 8:54 AM (GMT -7)   
I am in it for the butyrate production. That is what makes psllium seed powder so effective for me so why not promote the manufacture of butyrate internally by seeding with Clostridium butyricum M588 (CBM588). Maybe you have to keep on taking it, maybe it colonizes and you do not.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10832668

Article said...

In regard to the contents of the cecum and colon, the proportions of Lactobacillus and Eubacterium were increased in the cecum in the CBM588 group. Further, there were significant increases of n-butyrate, propionate, and acetate concentrations in the cecum in the CBM588 group. These results indicated that the oral administration of CBM588 alleviated DSS-induced colitis, and may be useful instead of butyrate enema.

xy123
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Date Joined Feb 2014
Total Posts : 678
   Posted 5/7/2015 1:46 PM (GMT -7)   
deltaforce said...
@xy123,
Did you consider Histamine as a causative agent?


deltaforce, yes. Histamine is one of the triggers for me. For connections:


Prevalence of migraine in patients with celiac disease and inflammatory bowel disease.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23126519
CONCLUSIONS:Migraine was more prevalent in celiac disease and IBD subjects than in controls

Mucosal histamine content and histamine secretion in Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis and allergic enteropathy.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7549499
In inflammatory bowel disease histamine content and secretion were found to be significantly increased particularly in affected mucosa of Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis than in unaffected tissue or in healthy controls.

Histamine in migraine and brain.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24433203

Migraine Attacks Shortened by Diamine Oxidase Supplements.
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/811920

pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 5/7/2015 2:23 PM (GMT -7)   
Guess that's why taking an antihistamine for my Humira headaches works so well, I take it at night before I go to bed on the day I give myself a shot of Humira...before that I would suffer with agonizing headaches for 2-3 days from Humira.
DX with Crohn's Disease in 1991 shortly after becoming ill. CD was affecting small and large bowel & anus (perianal crohn's skin tags) & rectum for first 2 yrs of becoming sick, CD remained constant in colon (Crohn's colitis) & anus with anal tags, intolerant to oral meds. Currently on Humira (Feb 2014) once a week and B12, Vitamin A and Omega's daily. In remission but trying to combat IBS D/C.

xy123
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2014
Total Posts : 678
   Posted 5/7/2015 2:37 PM (GMT -7)   
If you don't take an antihistamine do you get heart palpitations from humira? Maybe there is an allergic reaction?

pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20577
   Posted 5/7/2015 4:18 PM (GMT -7)   
Nope, just headaches...I've gotten heart palpitations since I was young and when I explained to my family doc what was happening he said everyone gets it but some people like me will feel the effects of it and said it was nothing to worry about...here I still am decades later and nothing has ever come from it.

Only major side effect I've gotten from Humira so far is those headaches, they got worse when I starting using it weekly but I'll be seeing my GI Monday and we'll be discussing dropping back to biweekly again.
DX with Crohn's Disease in 1991 shortly after becoming ill. CD was affecting small and large bowel & anus (perianal crohn's skin tags) & rectum for first 2 yrs of becoming sick, CD remained constant in colon (Crohn's colitis) & anus with anal tags, intolerant to oral meds. Currently on Humira (Feb 2014) once a week and B12, Vitamin A and Omega's daily. In remission but trying to combat IBS D/C.
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