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What does the election mean for us

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CCinPA
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2014
Posts : 2458
Posted 11/11/2016 9:30 AM (GMT -8)
ByeBye, Ben Carson proposed health savings accounts. His plan was to give each person $2000/year that can be used for insurance, medical care & drugs. You get it from birth and it can accumulate and be traded among family members. That was it. Doesn't sound very good to me.

ks, it's long been a dream of Paul Ryan to privatize both Social Security and Medicare.

I am so horrified about this election. I'm trying to search for optimism and hope that things won't be as bad as I think they will be. I haven't found a single ray of sunshine yet. People are more ugly to each other every day. Seems like we are heading towards a mix of Ayn Rand & Mad Max type of world.
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ks1905
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2005
Posts : 6329
Posted 11/11/2016 9:34 AM (GMT -8)

Alice22 said...
Keith,

Ok, I should have said that among the people who voted, Trump got the majority of votes. I am also from New York - raised on Long Island and most of my family worked in the city. Trump can be a crude, rude, insulting and self centered guy, agreed. But despite his bad qualities I believe he loves our country and wants to do good things - help our veterans, improve healthcare, improve the economy, etc. I didn't hear anything from the other side but more of the same which was not very inspiring. As obnoxious as Trump can be there are many people who know him personally and say he's a different person in private. The truth is we all are a mixed bag of good and bad qualities. I have UC too and I am not worried that his presidency will negatively affect my healthcare and pray that I am not wrong, for my sake and everyone else’s. Don’t forget that Trump was a Democrat until four years ago – I don’t know if that is any consolation but it would at least seem to suggest that he is not strictly aligned to one ideology. If Trump is an awful president I will vote for someone else in four years. He was not my first choice but I thought he’d be better than Clinton. Can you try to have a “wait and see” attitude and give him a chance?

Alice

He did not get the Majority of the Vote, he actually lost the overall Popular Vote by about 300,000 votes. He did win the electoral college. I would say that there was a effective effort to disenfranchise minority voters by lowering the number of polling places in Republican governed swing states and passing voter ID laws.

Even if Trump was on the democratic ticket I would not have voted for him, out of the principal that he is a bigoted xenophobe narcissist among many other things . I actually vote most of the time Republican for my State elections.

He doesn't do what he says. He promised a donation to veterans and didn't give it until 4 months later after he was shamed into giving it. /www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/05/24/four-months-later-donald-trump-says-he-gave-1-million-to-veterans-group/

I believe Trump is incapable of loving the country, because he is a narcissist the only thing he loves is himself. Here is a great article about Trumps' narcissistic tendencies and how bad they could end up being when things start to go wrong.
/www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/22/is-donald-trump-a-textbook-narcissist/

He is really incapable of sincerely apologizing for anything, SNL spoofs it as Applegizing because Trump can't really even say the word. The only time he apologizing was for the Access Hollywood tape where he bragged about committing sexual assault which would be a crime if reported.

I think I have every right to be terrified of what is going to happen to health care/insurance in this country.
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Richard in NY
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2012
Posts : 208
Posted 11/11/2016 10:28 AM (GMT -8)

CCinPA said...
ks, it's long been a dream of Paul Ryan to privatize both Social Security and Medicare.

Not exactly. What he has advocated for is giving younger people the option of putting up to a third of their payroll taxes into a private retirement account. Anyone who would rather just contribute to SS could do that.

www.ontheissues.org/House/Paul_Ryan_Social_Security.htm

What's really going to hurt is when SS runs out of money in 2030 and starts having to cut payments.

crfb.org/blogs/cbo-social-security-trust-fund-be-exhausted-1-year-earlier-2030

But I guess we're not supposed to talk about doing anything about that.
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ks1905
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2005
Posts : 6329
Posted 11/11/2016 10:40 AM (GMT -8)

CCinPA said...

ks, it's long been a dream of Paul Ryan to privatize both Social Security and Medicare.

That would probably mean vouchers and HMOs if they did privatized Medicare.
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eat2bwell
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2014
Posts : 534
Posted 11/11/2016 11:02 AM (GMT -8)
Do not think it matters who is the president. The lobbyist are running things and that is not going to change. Why we have allowed this to happen is a mystery to me. Trump is only one person and if he does the right thing neither the democrats or republicans will agree. I was so discussed about the senate race in Missouri. Roy Blunt won. His wife and three kids are lobbyist. How can this clown be for the people when his whole family are lobbyist. When people in our country see a clown like this and send him back to Washington there is no hope. Big pharma will continue to price their drugs higher and higher because that is the job of big corporations. Health care will continue to go up. I wish Trump the best but I have my doubts he can do anything.
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IamCurious
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2010
Posts : 3689
Posted 11/11/2016 11:09 AM (GMT -8)

ks1905 said...
I would say that there was a effective effort to disenfranchise minority voters by lowering the number of polling places in Republican governed swing states and passing voter ID laws.

I saw one candidate as a potential demagogue, the other as a congenital liar who believes that rules and laws don't apply to her. I refused to vote for either one of them.

But I think that this idea of voter ID laws to suppress voters is a myth. Nobody complains when the Obama Administration now requires just about everybody to get their social security checks, not by check but by automatic deposit into a bank account. Well it is impossible to open a bank account without a photo ID. People don't complain of “entitlement suppression” when forced to have a photo ID, but somehow asking for that same ID for voting is called “voter suppression”.

Before Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens recently retired he was considered one of the most LIBERAL members of the Court. In 2008 she wrote “Flagrant examples of such fraud . . . have been documented throughout this Nation’s history by respected historians and journalists.”

This was when the U.S. Supreme Court upheld Indiana's photo-ID law in a 6-3 decision. Justice Stevens should know since he practiced law in Chicago where the dead come to life on each election day.
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CCinPA
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2014
Posts : 2458
Posted 11/11/2016 11:58 AM (GMT -8)

Richard in NY said...

CCinPA said...
ks, it's long been a dream of Paul Ryan to privatize both Social Security and Medicare.

Not exactly. What he has advocated for is giving younger people the option of putting up to a third of their payroll taxes into a private retirement account. Anyone who would rather just contribute to SS could do that.

www.ontheissues.org/House/Paul_Ryan_Social_Security.htm

What's really going to hurt is when SS runs out of money in 2030 and starts having to cut payments.

crfb.org/blogs/cbo-social-security-trust-fund-be-exhausted-1-year-earlier-2030

But I guess we're not supposed to talk about doing anything about that.

It will run out of money even sooner if less is put into it. There is a simple fix to both SS & Medicare but the republicans will never do it. All they need to do is raise the contributions by a very small amount and raise the limit of wages affected.

For some reason people have forgotten why any of these programs were started in the first place. It's not like someone just wanted to give money to old people. There was a very pressing and urgent need. That need is still there and will be manifestly ugly when those programs are slashed.
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Richard in NY
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2012
Posts : 208
Posted 11/11/2016 3:43 PM (GMT -8)

CCinPA said...


It will run out of money even sooner if less is put into it. There is a simple fix to both SS & Medicare but the republicans will never do it. All they need to do is raise the contributions by a very small amount and raise the limit of wages affected.

For some reason people have forgotten why any of these programs were started in the first place. It's not like someone just wanted to give money to old people. There was a very pressing and urgent need. That need is still there and will be manifestly ugly when those programs are slashed.

Anyone who puts part of their withholdings into a private account would collect less from in SS retirement benefits, so it would also lower the programs long term liabilities.

The reason there's a cap on wages subject to SS withholding is because the way the benefits are calculated the more you pay in, the more you collect when you retire. That's been a fundamental principle of the program since it's inception. That's why you get an annual estimate of your retirement benefits from the SSA. If we eliminate the wage cap the liabilities will also go up. So this would only help if we abandon that principle and just make it another income transfer program.

There are lots of proposals for reforming social security and none of them are painless. I also don't see Democrats pushing for any of them.

www.aarp.org/work/social-security/info-05-2012/future-of-social-security-proposals.html
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beatUC
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2010
Posts : 1470
Posted 11/11/2016 4:01 PM (GMT -8)
You Yanks are so screwed...
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Andreita
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2011
Posts : 3837
Posted 11/11/2016 4:30 PM (GMT -8)
I just read that he changed his mind and wants to continue Obamacare. At least he wants to help those with pre-existing conditions and have children insured under their parents. I feel a little better now.
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isleman
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2013
Posts : 155
Posted 11/11/2016 5:22 PM (GMT -8)
BeatUC,

Actually they were caught between a rock and a hard place. Two oligarchic, neoliberal major candidates, one of who out-conned the other as standing up for working people with the obtuse slogan 'Make America Great Again'. What's sad is how their out-of-touch policies will get watered down to unfair even if seeming tolerable healthcare. These oligarchs want to privatise everything and are in the pockets of big business while pocketing quite a few themselves.

Post Edited (isleman) : 11/11/2016 6:26:15 PM (GMT-7)

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CCinPA
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2014
Posts : 2458
Posted 11/11/2016 6:00 PM (GMT -8)
I remember when 401k's were first started. They were supposed to be a way to allow workers to supplement their company pensions. Now very few people work somewhere where there is a company pension plan (except teachers & government workers). They say they only want to privatize a portion of SS now to allow people to supplement their guaranteed retirement income. Isn't that what the 401k is for? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Time will tell what will happen to health care in this country. One thing I think we can all agree on is that something needs to be done because it's a huge mess!

I'm backing out of this thread now ... got a bit side tracked and I am pretty sick of politics at the moment.

beatUC ... I agree ;)
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notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator
Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 17869
Posted 11/11/2016 10:55 PM (GMT -8)
401ks don't work so well and the thought of privatization of SS or Medicare makes me sick too. :(
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holo100
Regular Member
Joined : Oct 2016
Posts : 88
Posted 11/12/2016 3:10 AM (GMT -8)
I gave up on the idea of SS a long time ago, long before Obama, Trump and Hillary. By the time I retire, it won't be there. It's been broke for almost 20 years, and the government just kicks the can down the road with IOUs. Glad the Boomers are getting it, but I'll be surprised as hell if GenX sees a penny.
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Old Mike
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2007
Posts : 4073
Posted 11/12/2016 8:49 AM (GMT -8)
Good rundown on insurance and preexisting conditions and such.
From some of the above articles, messing with medicare which works well, is the quickest
way out of office.
Old Mike
/www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/12/donald-trump-is-beginning-to-face-a-rude-awakening-over-obamacare/#comments

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/12/2016 9:53:14 AM (GMT-7)

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IamCurious
Veteran Member
Joined : Jan 2010
Posts : 3689
Posted 11/12/2016 11:25 AM (GMT -8)
messing with medicare which works well, is the quickest way out of office.

Everyone since last year has been questioning how or why Donald Trump was doing so well as the Repub candidate. The answer might be that the other Republican candidates were worse. Trump was the only one who promised to leave social security and Medicare intact without changes.

But I just could never figure out why the Dems were so insistent on making Hillary Clinton their candidate. Now I think a lot of Dems are wondering the same thing.
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iPoop
Forum Moderator
Joined : Aug 2012
Posts : 16404
Posted 11/12/2016 2:18 PM (GMT -8)
The Republicans had known Hillary was preordained to be the eventual Democratic nominee more than a year before the convention and deftly destroyed her character (made her look corrupt and untrustworthy). They're sustained effort worked and Comey drove the final nail in her coffin. It worked, smart politicians.

I do think the country is headed in the worst possible direction with a Republican president with a majority in both the senate and house as compromise is unlikely as a consequence. What we really need is both parties to work together and find common ground and reasonable solutions. Now, the hyper-partisanship is going to make things much, much worse. So, I'm sure trumpcare will be as universally hated as obamacare is without any working together.
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Louiseluck
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2015
Posts : 96
Posted 11/13/2016 6:30 AM (GMT -8)
This liberal leftist from England seems to be pissed at our election

https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/?pnref=story
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beatUC
Veteran Member
Joined : Mar 2010
Posts : 1470
Posted 11/13/2016 7:04 AM (GMT -8)
Louiseluck, how did you find me out?????

Post Edited (beatUC) : 11/14/2016 4:41:09 PM (GMT-7)

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Old Hat
Veteran Member
Joined : Feb 2007
Posts : 5812
Posted 11/13/2016 3:43 PM (GMT -8)
"Give him time to see what he'll do." Byebye UC and others: are you kidding? Just look at the mediocrities (and worse) he put on his transition team and who he is proposing for the Cabinet. Sarah Palin for Secretary of the Interior? People who vote Republican don't seem to understand that fascism is still an evil idea-- because all they care about is materialism and the fetus; everything else can go hang. We've seen this over and over for the last 40 years! I'm not saying that Democrats have all the answers all the time, but at least they do try to incorporate serious research into their policy proposals and promote well-being of other sectors of our population besides white businessmen. / Old Hat (36 yrs with left-sided UC; presently in remission taking brandname Colazal)
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ks1905
Veteran Member
Joined : Sep 2005
Posts : 6329
Posted 11/14/2016 10:46 AM (GMT -8)

Old Hat said...
"Give him time to see what he'll do." Byebye UC and others: are you kidding? Just look at the mediocrities (and worse) he put on his transition team and who he is proposing for the Cabinet. Sarah Palin for Secretary of the Interior? People who vote Republican don't seem to understand that fascism is still an evil idea-- because all they care about is materialism and the fetus; everything else can go hang. We've seen this over and over for the last 40 years! I'm not saying that Democrats have all the answers all the time, but at least they do try to incorporate serious research into their policy proposals and promote well-being of other sectors of our population besides white businessmen. / Old Hat (36 yrs with left-sided UC; presently in remission taking brandname Colazal)

Now is the time for the people who are concerned to speak up and voice their opinions before Trump appoints zealots, deniers and extremists to government or cabinet positions.

It looks like Clinton will get somewhere over 2 million more votes than Trump; people do not want to be part of a silent majority governed by ideologs.
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Old Hat
Veteran Member
Joined : Feb 2007
Posts : 5812
Posted 11/14/2016 3:13 PM (GMT -8)
FYI, Keith et al.-- MoveOn.org has started a petition drive to abolish the Electoral College system in favor of a popular vote count in Presidential elections. So far they have 435,000+ signatures. / Old Hat (36 yrs with left-sided UC; presently in remission taking brandname Colazal)
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jujub
Elite Member
Joined : Mar 2003
Posts : 10424
Posted 11/14/2016 11:15 PM (GMT -8)
And, less than a week in, he's already saying he wants to keep the coverage for pre-existing conditions and adult children living with parents. I don't think he has any concrete idea of how he's going to "fix" the plan, but I hope he figures it out.
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isleman
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2013
Posts : 155
Posted 11/15/2016 3:33 AM (GMT -8)
Old Hat: "he put on his transition team and who he is proposing for the Cabinet. Sarah Palin for Secretary of the Interior?"

Do you believe Victoria 'F the EU' Nuland and the coterie of warmongering neocons under Clinton would have been any better? The way I see it, it is one establishment replacing another. Two equally bad neoliberal, right-wing choices. The only difference: one spoke more politely.
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Old Hat
Veteran Member
Joined : Feb 2007
Posts : 5812
Posted 11/17/2016 1:25 PM (GMT -8)
I have said all I care to on the subject, except to add that I'm sick and tired of the Republican attacks on women's rights!!!!!!! Our bodies are NOT state property, nor do we intend to revert to the 1950s. / Old Hat (36 yrs with left-sided UC; presently in remission taking brandname Colazal)
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