Dietary Creatine as a Possible Novel Treatment for Crohn’s Ileitis

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3790
   Posted 1/6/2017 9:54 AM (GMT -7)   
Now this is quite interesting, never looked into this.
I am not sure of the dosage though is this 1 gram a day or 1034 mg a day or what,
the way they have is written is 1,034g/day. Like 2 pounds or so.
Looking at creatine dosing it is probably 1 gram.
It pays to search a few ways on pubmed, I normally search colitis, but once every few
weeks will search inflammatory bowel, if I just searched colitis would not have found this.
Old Mike

complete article

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5171926/

guess I should look into this more
mouse studies
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3856803/

too much or even some can be dangerous -rhabdomyolysis
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/405777also

also another caution pulls water into the muscles then causes dehydration
in the rest of the body, need to drink extra

possible paleo diet connection
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26874700

clinical trial-looks like it is important enough to have a small trial
/clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02463305

now perhaps I can see how only one gram of extra creatine can tip the balance

The daily Cr requirement for an average 70-kg adult male is approximately 2 g, up to half of which may be derived by intestinal absorption from dietary sources such as meat, fish and other animal products [16]. The remainder is synthesized de novo from arginine, glycine and methionine by a two-step enzymatic reaction, utilizing arginine:glycine aminotransferase (AGAT) to generate guanidinoacetic acid (GAA) predominantly in the kidney, followed by hepatic methylation of GAA via guanidinoacetate methyltransferase (GAMT), using S-adenosylmethionine (SAM) as a methyl donor [17]. Cr biosynthesis accounts for ~70 % of the total utilization of labile methyl groups in the body, with SAM availability governed by levels of folate, vitamin B12, vitamin B2 and one-carbon precursors such as serine, histidine, tryptophan and choline [18, 19]. As such, deficiencies in folic acid and/or vitamin B12 are proposed to undermine GAA methylation and impact Cr biosynthesis [20]. Dietary and endogenous Cr enters systemic circulation and is actively transported into multiple tissue compartments by a transmembrane Na+ and Cl− -dependent creatine transporter (CrT), encoded by the SLC6A8 gene [21]. Approximately 1.5–2.0 % of the total Cr and PCr pool is degraded daily via simple non-enzymatic chemical dehydration to creatinine, which is lost from cells by diffusion and targeted for urinary excretion [22].

creatine kinase and inflammatory disorders
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987751/

metabolic regulation barrier function
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.4161/21688362.2014.970936

monohydrate vs hydrochloride
in the first paper the patient was using the hydrochloride
/www.kagedmuscle.com/blogs/science/85398979-benefits-of-creatine-hcl

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 1/7/2017 10:21:54 AM (GMT-7)


ewafromwarsaw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2013
Total Posts : 1219
   Posted 1/6/2017 6:57 PM (GMT -7)   
very interesting, but i'm wondering if it could impair the kidneys?
Ewa, 24 yrs old from Warsaw
Left-sided colitis, diagnosed in September 2012
Current meds: 2x2 Asamax (500 mg) and Salofalk enemas (twice a week)
Mutaflor or VSL#3

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3790
   Posted 1/6/2017 7:17 PM (GMT -7)   
EWA: If you eat meat you get about 2 grams a day, also it is made in the body.
So low does probably ok, there is some indication of high does might cause problems.
Some body builders take quite a lot.

Another interesting question is how did only 1 gram help the guy in the paper.
Unless they got there amount wrong.
In the clinical trial they will be given 21 grams a day.
I wonder if we will ever see the results or will it be buried.
Old Mike
UC-1980, same flare since 1986. Still smoke. MEDS: None
Glycine possibly up to 10 grams or more a day, divided doses,will help induce
HSP70 along with Oregano/WOO, may also need heat, Sauna,Hot Tub/hot bath.
Oregano/WOO, most important.
Curcumin-Thins my blood too much.

iPoop
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 11048
   Posted 1/7/2017 6:11 AM (GMT -7)   
Isn't creatine in most weight lifting protein powders? I remember a coworker having high levels of it in his bloodwork from a physical and doctor and he pinned it down to that stuff he took before working out, some protein stuff...
Moderator Ulcerative Colitis
John
, 38, in a minor flare, UC Proctosigmoiditis
Rx: Remicade @5mgs/kg/6wks; 50mgs 6MP, 4.8g Mesalamine DR, 5mgs pred (tapering)

Anywhere but in my pants is my modus operandi since UC: no problem with grungy gas station bathrooms, portoletts, or even the woods.

still_living
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts : 45
   Posted 1/7/2017 11:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes, John. It is most commonly used as a kind of pre-workout supplement.

imagardener2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 5606
   Posted 1/8/2017 5:26 AM (GMT -7)   
Very interesting. Most common food sources for creatine are meat and fish including salmon, no vegetarian source. Wonder if this is perhaps one reason vegetarians (I'm a former one) seem over-represented here, that we had no creatine source at the time we got UC.
Diet=gluten-free modified Paleo+potatoes+low dairy, low grain, no seafood (IBS),low fiber diet
In remission April 2010 after 10 years of UC after no remission ever
gluten-free =bleeding stopped, dairy-free (less IBS) started remission path+food diary
daily: Balsalazide 750mg and 2 Ginkgold tablet
rarely: VSL#3, mesalamine enema, Canasa supp

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3790
   Posted 1/14/2017 1:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Just took my first 0.5 grams dose of creatine hydrochloride 1/8 teaspoon,will see
how my gut likes it,or not.
That is like eating 1/4 pound of steak so hopefully no adverse events.
Also been eating as of two days ago lots of lemon peel with some pulp, whatever I happen
to cut off. Most of the flanonoids are in the peel.
Been about 5 hours now and just had 12 oz prime rib, no adverse events yet.
Must be the VO,or the IPA keeping me ok
Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 1/14/2017 4:46:49 PM (GMT-7)


ewafromwarsaw
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2013
Total Posts : 1219
   Posted 1/15/2017 2:11 PM (GMT -7)   
you should be careful about lemon peel because it's stuffed with chemicals (unless you harvest your own lemon trees in your tropical garden smile, and btw, i'd rather eat steak - i marinate beef sirloin steaks in red wine, garlic and fresh ginger root, they are delicious
Ewa, 24 yrs old from Warsaw
Left-sided colitis, diagnosed in September 2012
Current meds: 2x2 Asamax (500 mg) and Salofalk enemas (twice a week)
Mutaflor or VSL#3

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3790
   Posted 1/15/2017 4:00 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks EWA, I know about the pesticides, may go organic if I see any improvement from
the flavonoids.
OM
UC-1980, same flare since 1986. Still smoke. MEDS: None
Glycine possibly up to 10 grams or more a day, divided doses,will help induce
HSP70 along with Oregano/WOO, may also need heat, Sauna,Hot Tub/hot bath.
Oregano/WOO, most important.
Curcumin-Thins my blood too much.

Canada Mark
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts : 3481
   Posted 1/15/2017 7:57 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Mike. I have taken creatine monohydrate, the other type of what you are trying. I can handle 5 grams daily with zero effects. Actually my system really, really likes 5 grams of creatine and 5 grams of l-glutamine mixed together with water. Like really likes it.

I stopped just because I ran out of l-glutamine. Will start again when I get a chance to get some more.
Diagnosed Crohns-Colitis 12-13 years ago - Past Meds: Antibiotics, Prednisone, Methotrexate, Imuran, Remicade - Current Meds: Imuran 150mg/daily, Natural: WOO/Thyme Oil, All organic food no additives as best as possible. I stopped taking probiotics as I felt they were not helping much.

“The only person you're destined to become, is the person you decide to be"

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3790
   Posted 1/16/2017 6:32 AM (GMT -7)   
Mark, good to know you gut likes it, that is like eating 2 pounds of steak.
Another interesting tid bit, remember all those huge methyation threads we had in the past.
Well in order to make endogenous creatine the cycle uses SAMe which methylates, depending on
the source I read between 40%-70% of the available methylation from SAMe is used in the body
to make the one gram of creatine a day.
Creatine supplementation lowers the endogenous synthesis, which I suspect leaves
SAMe free to methylate other stuff. Who knows, might be another aspect as to why
it might work.

I remember many were taking methyl B12 and methyl folate, both of which destroy my gut.
Anyhow this seems a way to increase methylation,by not using up SAMe.

Old Mike

www.benbest.com/health/Meth.html

But according to this hypermethylation is going on in UC,so perhaps not a good idea.
I dont know if have extra methyl groups available will lead to hypermethylation.
/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3982627/


one of my old threads


www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=2537660

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 1/16/2017 7:08:54 AM (GMT-7)


Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3790
   Posted 1/22/2017 8:45 AM (GMT -7)   
Thought I better post this.
From another forum, person with crohns, bad adverse event.
Since it seems to do nothing for me one way or another and in light of this adverse event,
I have decided to stop taking it also.
Coincidence perhaps, or perhaps not.


Old Mike

I tried Creatine after learning about this study and thought I ought to mention that on the second day of my experiment I had a flare-up in my small intestines that got my attention. I rarely get noticeable flare-ups that make me go "Oh boy"; maybe once every month. So I took the Creatine pill to see if that would help and the flare up seemed to subside. But the THIRD day I had a super flare-up (super by my metric at least since I've never had to be admitted) and had to go the hospital because I got real bad abdominal cramping (I think trapped gas, but Gas-X did nothing).
They gave me tons of IV fluid, bags of IV antibiotics (so much it surprised my nurse), steroids, and even a shot of blood thinner for some reason.
They did a CAT scan and saw my appendix was inflamed, or at least the tip of it, and scheduled me for an appointment on the next day to get it taken out, but that proved unnecessary.
I just thought I should mention this, even though I don't want to scare people off from something that could help them. But I feel strongly that, at least in my case, the flare-up was caused by it since it happened just two days after starting it and I never got a flare-up this intense. Whether it was also responsible for my appendix flaring up directly or indirectly I just don't know.

For the record, the pills I had taken (just one each day--I was being super conservative) were RARI Nutrition's Creatine HCL. 750mg creatine per pill.

Filler ingredients are gelatin (the capsule part), rice flour, magnesium stearate, and silicon dioxide.

Steve_A
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 2/4/2017 1:59 AM (GMT -7)   
I just read this article that came out February 1, 2017 about the gene that protects against inflammatory bowel disease has been identified.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170201150622.htm

In the article it said in mice that had similar symptoms to IBD due to the recessive Gatm gene mutation - "Those symptoms improved when the mice received creatine in their drinking water, the researchers said. The study indicates that creatine is necessary for providing the energy needed for the rapid replenishment of the mucosal barrier."

So I'm gonna give Creatine a try.

Thoughts?

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3790
   Posted 2/4/2017 5:53 AM (GMT -7)   
Steve: Just be careful read my post just above yours, about the adverse event someone had
from another forum.

Old Mike
UC-1980, same flare since 1986. Still smoke. MEDS: None
Glycine possibly up to 10 grams or more a day, divided doses,will help induce
HSP70 along with Oregano/WOO, may also need heat, Sauna,Hot Tub/hot bath.
Oregano/WOO, most important.
Curcumin-Thins my blood too much.

Steve_A
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2016
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 2/5/2017 12:04 AM (GMT -7)   
Will do Old Mike. I took it years ago for working out before I had UC. Will definitely be cautious (as I always am when trying something new) and will let you guys know if something good happens.

Steve

TroubledTurds
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 8038
   Posted 2/5/2017 7:33 AM (GMT -7)   
Old Mike said...
Thanks EWA, I know about the pesticides, may go organic if I see any improvement from
the flavonoids.
OM



ya, just read something the other day about the benefit of eating citrus peels and my first thought was what about pesticides ???? so i agree about sourcing organic if possible - or get them from Ewa's tropical paradise !
dx'd with pancolitis 12/21/03
current supplements:vit D, cal/mag, Psyllium Seed powder/Heather's Acacia fiber/ L-Glutamine/Hemp powder slurry 1x/week - grain free/paleoish diet that includes 100% grass fed beef, raw goat milk, & local organic free range eggs, lots of all natural well water, exercise, sleep as much as possible & enjoy this great life that God has blessed me with !
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Monday, December 18, 2017 9:49 AM (GMT -7)
There are a total of 2,906,739 posts in 318,991 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 158335 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, Makas.
385 Guest(s), 9 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
Rick1310, PeppermintTea, Spring, EruditePaul, Katia, Progressing, FamilyGuy, RocketMan12, Steve n Dallas