Has someone tried digestive enzymes and Betaine HCL ?

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Zinex
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 3/14/2017 12:51 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Everyone

I've been suffering from IBS/Crohn with diarrhea for quite a long time.

I have also GERD, Acid Reflux and most probably low stomach acid, as I'm constantly returning (Regurgitation) everything I eat or drink like a maniac ruminant.

I don't have heartburns, though , and since I've changed my diet 2 years ago I don't suffer from painful discomforts in my stomach like before.

Another issue is that I have always MUCUS in my stool and I stay a loooooong time in the w.c, 2 to 3 times a day and between 40min to 1 hour.

I have a healthy program now, I eat organic (mostly vegan/vegetarian) and I do sport, I don't drink milk or coffee (I do eat yogurt for the Probiotic benefits), but it doesn't seem enough to stop the IBS-D.

My question is if, in my situation, the Digestive Enzymes and Betaine HCL with pepsin (or without because I don't use supplements of animal sources) will help me to improve my digestion and stop the reflux.

Can you please provide me the most effective supplement and products with plant-based sources? I can't have a brand which uses pepsin from porcine sources or any other animal sources, I need a Vegan/Vegetarian products.

Thank you so much

Zinex
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 3/16/2017 12:21 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you , healseeker.

Some say that Apple cider Vinegar has the same effect than Betaine, and drinking a spoon before meals increase the acid in your stomach to have a better digestion.

What's your opinion about the natural remedies like Ginger, Peppermint Oil, Flaxseed, Honey, Papaya and other organic products that helps to restore your gut health?

brucen36
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 259
   Posted 3/16/2017 8:51 AM (GMT -7)   
healseeker said...
I've been using Enzymedica digestive enzymes for about 10 years--I'm not sure if they're vegan/vegeterian but you can look it up. But systemic or proteolytic enzymes are much more powerful and I've taken as many as 10 pills to get rid of certain issues and it's worked!! Check out Fibrenza like I used and then compare it to others to see which one you think will work best for you, but don't just take 1 or 2 because you need many to get rid of health issues that took years of accumulating problems compounding and 2 simple pills will not be powerful enough to do the trick. I took 10 3x/day for a week and it worked wonders--that was a recommendation from scientists not even involved in the making of systrmic enzymes.


Are you saying you took 10 of the Enzymedica per day? Which specific formulation? How did you decide on 10?
Male mid 40s.
SCD only, since 2006.
Since 2015: mesalamine 4.8 g/day and salofalk enemas as needed.
Psyllium seed powder 1 tbsp at night
Goat milk kefir

Poppie
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2014
Total Posts : 1999
   Posted 3/16/2017 9:59 AM (GMT -7)   
I think he's saying he took 10 three times a day!!! I'm sure that cant be good for you.
Samantha
Stopped smoking Jan 2013. Diagnosed Left sided UC, 8th Feb 2014.
Gluten, Dairy, Sulfite, Salicylate, and Histamine intolerant.
Had home FMT treatment in July 2016 to ward off reoccurrence of C DIfficile.
Taking Methotrexate 10mg weekly and on 10g of Prednisone at the moment, hoping it will work for me.

Zinex
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 3/17/2017 1:58 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you so much Healseeker,

It's the first time I've seen someone that uses enzymes to kill viruses, that's interesting!
Normally I use Essential Oil of Oregano, Black Seed Oil, Propolis, Raw pure Honey, Olive Leaf Extract and recently Indian costus (Saussurea Lappa), among others.

Fasting has been really helpful indeed, eating little is also a blessing but difficult to do every time.

I found a product that has some enzymes and HCL Betaine in one pill:
http://www.pureencapsulations.com/digestive-enzymes-ultra-w-betaine-hcl.html

Would you recommend that one?

Can you elaborate on how enzymes help kill viruses?

Thanks a lot

brucen36
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 259
   Posted 3/17/2017 6:24 PM (GMT -7)   
healseeker said...
They recommend on scientific websites to take 30 pills for therapeutic reasons


Do you have any links for this statement?

Zinex
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2017
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 3/20/2017 4:55 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you Healseeker

I've used Activated Charcoal from Coconut shells, but since I've read that it absorbs also the vitamins and minerals I stopped using it often. Activated Charcoal absorbs everything and should be taken outside meals and other supplements, so it doesn't take the benefits of the superfoods you take.


What's your opinion about Lysine when fighting viruses?

Thanks

ambling
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 632
   Posted 3/20/2017 5:19 AM (GMT -7)   
Zinex, and others, please be careful taking advice from anonymous forum posters.

The links provided are misleading nonsense.
The first 'doctor' linked is renowned for telling cancer patients to stop chemotherapy, and instead buy his supplements. (One person did so, and his tumor grew four times in size over the next nine months.) He is a known quack.
There is also a PhD 'doctor' linked, but it turns out his PhD is in... martial arts.

And it seems 'healseeker' is now a woman, though previously posting as a man called 'curedcolitis' (endlessly spamming the boards about activated charcoal.)

I am sure I will cop a spray for touching on this, but misinformation can be dangerous.

beave
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 1653
   Posted 3/20/2017 12:34 PM (GMT -7)   
ambling is right about one thing: The links healseeker provided are dangerous junk science. The internet is an amazing source of information, but perhaps an even more amazing source of MISinformation.

And when people use the word "sheeple" when talking about science literacy, it tells me all I need to know.

TroubledTurds
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 8038
   Posted 3/20/2017 1:14 PM (GMT -7)   
beave said...
ambling is right about one thing: The links healseeker provided are dangerous junk science. The internet is an amazing source of information, but perhaps an even more amazing source of MISinformation.

And when people use the word "sheeple" when talking about science literacy, it tells me all I need to know.



any chance you could be more specific about what you consider the junk science in this article >


http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james174.htm
dx'd with pancolitis 12/21/03
current supplements:vit D, cal/mag, Psyllium Seed powder/Heather's Acacia fiber/ L-Glutamine/Hemp powder slurry 1x/week - grain free/paleoish diet that includes 100% grass fed beef, raw goat milk, & local organic free range eggs, lots of all natural well water, exercise, sleep as much as possible & enjoy this great life that God has blessed me with !

ambling
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 632
   Posted 3/20/2017 1:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Curedcolitis or healseeker, no one asked about shingles. I know it's hard to keep the story straight.
And you talk above about activated charcoal, and how it 'adsorbs toxins'. Funny how curedcolitis did that also.
So you 'cured' your colitis? All better now?

beave
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 1653
   Posted 3/20/2017 2:01 PM (GMT -7)   
soynomore said...
beave said...
ambling is right about one thing: The links healseeker provided are dangerous junk science. The internet is an amazing source of information, but perhaps an even more amazing source of MISinformation.

And when people use the word "sheeple" when talking about science literacy, it tells me all I need to know.



any chance you could be more specific about what you consider the junk science in this article >


http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james174.htm


http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/02/health/he-skeptic2

TroubledTurds
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 8038
   Posted 3/20/2017 3:30 PM (GMT -7)   
i'm not referring to the marketing of a maybe questionable supplement - i'm referring to the scientific information stated in the article -

anything more current debunking the importance of enzymes ?
dx'd with pancolitis 12/21/03
current supplements:vit D, cal/mag, Psyllium Seed powder/Heather's Acacia fiber/ L-Glutamine/Hemp powder slurry 1x/week - grain free/paleoish diet that includes 100% grass fed beef, raw goat milk, & local organic free range eggs, lots of all natural well water, exercise, sleep as much as possible & enjoy this great life that God has blessed me with !

beave
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 1653
   Posted 3/20/2017 3:56 PM (GMT -7)   
The "scientific information" in the article is intertwined with the marketing claims for the supplement.

Nobody disputes the "importance" of enzymes made by our bodies. But the claims that taking enzyme supplements can prevent, treat, or cure diseases are not supported by evidence.

ambling
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 632
   Posted 3/20/2017 4:03 PM (GMT -7)   
An enzyme is a protein which facilitates a chemical reaction.They are made of amino acids, and are digested like all other proteins.

The idea that they somehow bypass digestion, remaining intact to enter the blood stream, is not sensible.
They could be injected (giiven intravenously) but orally they will degrade.

Digestive enzymes (which are different to the thousands of other enzymes that are used in the body) can assist in the early stages of digestion (stomach and jejunum).

Betaine is one digestive enzyme that can be used to assist sluggish digestion in the stomach.
The notion that 'systemic enzymes' can cure cancer etc, is not based on any reasonable science or studies.
Its sad (and can be dangerous) to see seriously ill people grasped for these types of supplements.

TroubledTurds
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 8038
   Posted 3/20/2017 4:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Besides digestive enzyme supplementation, oral enzymes can be used systemically. This requires taking enzymes on an empty stomach between meals so they can be absorbed through your gut into your bloodstream, where your cells can use them metabolically to clear away debris and accumulated metabolic buildups.
However, getting enzymes from your digestive tract into your bloodstream isn't as easy as it would seem. Enzymes are very susceptible to denaturing and must be helped to survive the highly acidic environment in your stomach. For this reason, they're often given an "enteric coating" to help them survive the journey through your digestive tract.
Systemic oral enzymes have been used to treat problems ranging from sports injuries to arthritis to heart disease and cancer, particularly in European countries. But most of the research has been published in non-English language journals.
This systemic use of enzymes is still in its infancy in the U.S. Keep in mind that in order for enzymes to be used systemically, they must be ingested on an empty stomach. Otherwise, your body will use them for digesting your food, instead of being absorbed into the blood and doing their work there.

Old Mike
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3790
   Posted 3/20/2017 4:32 PM (GMT -7)   
I am not real big fan of digestive enzymes or at least plant enzymes.
No way for the body to shut them off after digestion is completed.
Even animal/human enzymes in excess might perhaps not be able to be shut down.
So you might end up with excess protease and start to dissolve yourself.

We have enough trouble with bacterial protease, and pancreatic protease that is not turned off.
We also have problems with our supply of anti-trypsin in the colon.

Moderation.

Protease inhibitors can put people into remission.

Of course some can have not enough or excess HCL in the stomach,
but that is a different story.

Old Mike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 3/20/2017 5:40:56 PM (GMT-6)


beave
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 1653
   Posted 3/20/2017 4:42 PM (GMT -7)   
soynomore said...
Besides digestive enzyme supplementation, oral enzymes can be used systemically. This requires taking enzymes on an empty stomach between meals so they can be absorbed through your gut into your bloodstream, where your cells can use them metabolically to clear away debris and accumulated metabolic buildups.
However, getting enzymes from your digestive tract into your bloodstream isn't as easy as it would seem. Enzymes are very susceptible to denaturing and must be helped to survive the highly acidic environment in your stomach. For this reason, they're often given an "enteric coating" to help them survive the journey through your digestive tract.
Systemic oral enzymes have been used to treat problems ranging from sports injuries to arthritis to heart disease and cancer, particularly in European countries. But most of the research has been published in non-English language journals.
This systemic use of enzymes is still in its infancy in the U.S. Keep in mind that in order for enzymes to be used systemically, they must be ingested on an empty stomach. Otherwise, your body will use them for digesting your food, instead of being absorbed into the blood and doing their work there.


Is there a reason you copied and pasted some text from Mercola?

Do you notice that there are no supporting links or documentation for so many claims made on that website?

ambling
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2011
Total Posts : 632
   Posted 3/20/2017 4:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Yeah, nice copy and paste soy. Pseudo-science is huge in the supplement industry. A bit convenient that only foreign language links might exist eyes
Research is ongoing in the area, but the kinetics of delivery are too complex to manage at this stage.

brucen36
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts : 259
   Posted 3/20/2017 5:39 PM (GMT -7)   
Generally speaking, the majority of all proteins are broken down into amino acids and peptides before being absorbed into the cells of the small intestine. However, there is growing evidence that small amounts of intact proteins can also make their way across the small intestine using diverse mechanisms.
Male mid 40s.
SCD only, since 2006.
Since 2015: mesalamine 4.8 g/day and salofalk enemas as needed.
Psyllium seed powder 1 tbsp at night
Goat milk kefir

TroubledTurds
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 8038
   Posted 3/20/2017 6:28 PM (GMT -7)   
beave said...
soynomore said...
Besides digestive enzyme supplementation, oral enzymes can be used systemically. This requires taking enzymes on an empty stomach between meals so they can be absorbed through your gut into your bloodstream, where your cells can use them metabolically to clear away debris and accumulated metabolic buildups.
However, getting enzymes from your digestive tract into your bloodstream isn't as easy as it would seem. Enzymes are very susceptible to denaturing and must be helped to survive the highly acidic environment in your stomach. For this reason, they're often given an "enteric coating" to help them survive the journey through your digestive tract.
Systemic oral enzymes have been used to treat problems ranging from sports injuries to arthritis to heart disease and cancer, particularly in European countries. But most of the research has been published in non-English language journals.
This systemic use of enzymes is still in its infancy in the U.S. Keep in mind that in order for enzymes to be used systemically, they must be ingested on an empty stomach. Otherwise, your body will use them for digesting your food, instead of being absorbed into the blood and doing their work there.


Is there a reason you copied and pasted some text from Mercola?

Do you notice that there are no supporting links or documentation for so many claims made on that website?




is there a good reason not to ? are you asking about everything ever posted on his site or the information i copied and posted ?
dx'd with pancolitis 12/21/03
current supplements:vit D, cal/mag, Psyllium Seed powder/Heather's Acacia fiber/ L-Glutamine/Hemp powder slurry 1x/week - grain free/paleoish diet that includes 100% grass fed beef, raw goat milk, & local organic free range eggs, lots of all natural well water, exercise, sleep as much as possible & enjoy this great life that God has blessed me with !

beave
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 1653
   Posted 3/20/2017 7:15 PM (GMT -7)   
Thus he spoke, and the sons of the Achaeans for a long while sat sorrowful there, but they all held their peace, till at last Diomed of the loud battle-cry made answer saying, "Son of Atreus, I will chide your folly, as is my right in council. Be not then aggrieved that I should do so. In the first place you attacked me before all the Danaans and said that I was a coward and no soldier. The Argives young and old know that you did so. But the son of scheming Saturn endowed you by halves only. He gave you honour as the chief ruler over us, but valour, which is the highest both right and might he did not give you. Sir, think you that the sons of the Achaeans are indeed as unwarlike and cowardly as you say they are? If your own mind is set upon going home- go- the way is open to you; the many ships that followed you from Mycene stand ranged upon the seashore; but the rest of us stay here till we have sacked Troy. Nay though these too should turn homeward with their ships, Sthenelus and myself will still fight on till we reach the goal of Ilius, for for heaven was with us when we came."

The sons of the Achaeans shouted applause at the words of Diomed, and presently Nestor rose to speak. "Son of Tydeus," said he, "in war your prowess is beyond question, and in council you excel all who are of your own years; no one of the Achaeans can make light of what you say nor gainsay it, but you have not yet come to the end of the whole matter. You are still young- you might be the youngest of my own children- still you have spoken wisely and have counselled the chief of the Achaeans not without discretion; nevertheless I am older than you and I will tell you every" thing; therefore let no man, not even King Agamemnon, disregard my saying, for he that foments civil discord is a clanless, hearthless outlaw.
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