Advice on Qing Dai

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Lover of Life
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Date Joined Jul 2017
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   Posted 7/8/2017 4:23 PM (GMT -6)   
I started flaring October 29, 2016 due to trying to gradually get myself off Asacol everyday (stupid I know!). Waited too long to see the Dr. but in January (week before my wedding) went to a new Dr. and was put on Canasa that normally worked great for me. Helped with the symptoms but I never went into remission. Oh and I got engaged in October 2016, married January 2017, sold a house in March 2017 and bought a house in March 2017.....can you say completely stressful 6 months which really doesn't help the situation!

Got a colonoscopy in March 2017 and it didn't show any progression of the disease but still definite inflammation. This new GI doesn't like steroids long term so didn't want me to stay on Canasa but I won't take prednisone ever again. So after a colonoscopy, I had been on Canasa for a couple months. Ran out but there was still a little blood in my stool. After being off Canasa about a week the urgency, blood and mucus returned. I finally was switched to Lialda because Asacol wasn't doing the job anymore. When I switched to Lialda he also put me on Flagyl because he didn't want me to continue Canasa. That was a disaster. After 2 days I had more blood in my stool then before, bright red blood just dripping after I went, mucus, stomach pain....it was terrible. Called him a week later he got me in and I begged to get on Canasa. So he gave it to me for another month. about a week later I ordered the qing dai because I figured that it was worth a shot and I was sick of it all. I'm an active person and the symptoms suck as we all know!

Of course I can't say it's only the qing dai because I also started the Lialda about month ago and have been on Canasa about 3 weeks now but in the 2 1/2 weeks I've been taking the qing dai the urgency, mucus and blood have decreased significantly. The biggest difference I notice it that I feel great! I've always had a sensitive stomach but not the terrible cramps and pain I read about on here that some have. Maybe because my issue is more the rectum and not so far into the intestines? Don't know, but all I know is that my stomach has felt amazing for the past couple weeks. Still eating bland foods and being really careful and the blood isn't completely gone but it's much less. As opposed to the previous member's post, my stools have become formed and very regular. Once maybe twice in the morning (I workout in the morning so that always gets things moving), then in the late afternoon. Haven't experienced the constipation at all, but as with everything, drugs/supplements effect everyone differently.

I'm going to stick with the qing dai and definitely make sure I get the 3gm a day per the member post above. Guess something in me changed and the Canasa just isn't working like it used to so I need to find something to kick this flare and I'm NEVER going to try to get off the maintenance meds again!
Hoping to hear others that are trying this herbal remedy.

Post Edited (Lovel of Life) : 7/8/2017 3:32:07 PM (GMT-6)


MarjieKay
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Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 611
   Posted 7/8/2017 4:44 PM (GMT -6)   
Wow! my stomach was hurting pretty badly at 3.5, I can't image longer than 4 days. I hope this is temporary. I did buy some fiber supplements and began those yesterday (probably what made things move).

Ok, I'll debate this. Since I have been B & M free, maybe allowing clean monitoring is best at this point. Thanks for your input smile

Want2know
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Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 7/8/2017 8:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Lovel of Life, yes, that was a surprise to me, how the qing dai eases the abodominal pain and crampiness, and I think maybe arthritic pain too. If not a cure, at least taking the supplement presents some relief.

MarjieKay
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Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 611
   Posted 7/9/2017 5:43 AM (GMT -6)   
I'm glad you're getting some relief with your current protocol, Lover of Life !

This can be kind of confusing since most of us are employing several methods concurrently and some of these are such that they take time for the benefits to be seen. I am taking a new probiotic and experimenting with dietary changes AND taking both oral and rectal mesalamine.

Tough to parse out what is doing what......so adding this in right now seems like a fruitless idea for me. I am going to save it for a time when I'll be able to judge it's results better (plus I am already seeing a hefty reduction in symptoms).

Good luck everyone!
F, 51
2008 Diagnosed with colitis
2017 Diagnosed with Chronic Ulcerative Colitis

Currently taking Pentasa, Rowasa

VanHuyten
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Date Joined Mar 2018
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 3/11/2018 9:02 PM (GMT -6)   
eekseel said...
The recommended dosage is 2-3 gram a day, (1.5gr 2x per day, or 1gr 3x per day). Most people going this route have either been taking supplements that don't contain enough qingdai, contain none at all, or haven't been taking it correctly or long enough to know whether or not it works for them (4 months).


Hi, I recently purchased the Qing Dai from amazon but the bottle came with nothing to measure the 1.5gm. I called the company to ask them how much is a gram but they had no idea. Can someone please let me know if they have a way of measuring it?

Thanks

eekseel
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 110
   Posted 3/12/2018 11:48 AM (GMT -6)   
A gram is a gram, buy a digital scale.

freddyj
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Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 1284
   Posted 3/12/2018 2:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Worrieducer,

I have used isatis cooling bow for a few months and I do think there is a benefit. Im a little worried that the herbs come from china and are therefore coming from a really polluted country. Id prefer to have good, organically grown material I could feel better about but hey. If its working thats huge. I have had a basically unending flare going for almost 8 years so improvement is huge. Its part of a combination of things, essentially all plant based. Was on remicade and the rest.

I have also read a few things regarding liver issues from this, so thats a thought. I don’t know how the long term use affects liver or other aspects of health negatively.

Do you know is the stuff you are buying is grown in China or if its organic? Or coming from China, “organic”? I just saw the thread and will peruse it all, but wondering where you are getting it. Good luck!

Connor77
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Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 523
   Posted 3/13/2018 12:12 AM (GMT -6)   
If they are GMP standard, then they are checked for heavy metals.
DX left-sided UC 2015, 3 fulminant flares since then
Started FMT clinical trial Feb 2018
Dx w/mycobacterium avium paratuberculosis (MAP) Sept 2017
Stopped AMAT @ 6 weeks due to intolerance of meds
Others: Entyvio every 4 weeks, Low Dose Naltrexone 3mg at bedtime, natural ferments
Current status: lingering rectal bleeding, otherwise healthy

eekseel
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 110
   Posted 3/13/2018 10:39 AM (GMT -6)   
I haven't had any liver issues going on a year now. I had hepatic function checked 4 months in and the doctor saw no irregularity. The ones affected in the study were "mild and rare". Just get it checked every so often.
Diagnosed UC 2009 - Moderate Pancolitis since 2015.
April 2017 stopped Lialda after 5 years, in remission after 6 months Qing Dai (3grams daily) + 60mg sulforaphane (140g brocolli sprouts, juiced) + good multivitamin, fish oil, CBD oil, cardio and other odds and ends.

You can only lead a horse to water...

Dawgg
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Date Joined Feb 2017
Total Posts : 15
   Posted 3/13/2018 12:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Qing Dai is the only thing that ever helped me (other than steroids). After 25 years of UC and a partial colectomy 3.5 years ago, I still had blood in my stool every day starting 6 months after surgery. Tried Qing Dai two years ago (more out of desperation) and all symptoms disappeared over night. I couldn't believe it. After some extended travel for 3 weeks with no access to Qing Dai blood came back. Coming home, took about 3 gramms of Qing Dai and didn't have blood the next morning. I think I got lucky, Qing Dai seems to suppress the inflammatory processes in my colon. Last two sigmoidoscopy exams (all I have left) show no more inflammation. It unfortunately doesn't seem to work for everybody.

Tastes bad though, so I mix about 3 gramms daily with ground flax seed, add water and gulp it down. I'm also taking curcumin, moringa leave powder, and boswellia, but Qing Dai made the difference.

eekseel
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2017
Total Posts : 110
   Posted 3/13/2018 1:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I used to take the powder straight until I bought a capsule machine. It's so much better, I just pop a few qingdai with my supplements and I'm good.

I've been waiting for the day to see more people report on their successes. It's ben a long time coming. Doesn't work for everyone but so many aren't even willing to try it or give it long enough to work. For me bleeding didn't stop overnight but it was gone in a few days and I haven't had a single drop of blood since, after years and years of consistent bleeding.
Diagnosed UC 2009 - Moderate Pancolitis since 2015.
April 2017 stopped Lialda after 5 years, in remission after 6 months Qing Dai (3grams daily) + 60mg sulforaphane (140g brocolli sprouts, juiced) + good multivitamin, fish oil, CBD oil, cardio and other odds and ends.

You can only lead a horse to water...

Jo-nock
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 7/17/2018 12:32 PM (GMT -6)   
I just want to warn people thinking of buying CC Herbal which says it contains 3 herbs including qing dai. In fact I believe it now only contains qing dai. You can tell this if you open up a capsule and try to dissolve it. It won't dissolve but some blue dye will come out and if you rub what is left between your fingers it is just like black carbon. If it contained the 3 herbs in concentrated granule form they would dissolve, you would taste the bitterness of the other herbs and it would look more brown, but in fact it behaves just like qing dai powder which you can buy for a tiny fraction of the price. I bought this first in 2014 and I believe it did contain the 3 herbs including a more expensive concentrated and refined light blue qing dai, but since then they have resorted to just using unrefined blue/grey qing dai which is much cheaper. It may work but you are being lied to and ripped off and the bottle is mislabelled. You are probably also going to have to take more for it to work. So my advice is to buy regular qing dai powder from a reputable brand or supplier. You can mix and soak it in water and just drink the blue water. The black solids will settle out. You can also buy the other herbs as concentrated powders and they are good too. I also used patrinia (bai jiang cao) which is commonly used for colitis.

barnsbury
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Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 479
   Posted 7/17/2018 12:55 PM (GMT -6)   
Jo-nock said...
I just want to warn people thinking of buying CC Herbal which says it contains 3 herbs including qing dai. In fact I believe it now only contains qing dai. You can tell this if you open up a capsule and try to dissolve it. It won't dissolve but some blue dye will come out and if you rub what is left between your fingers it is just like black carbon. If it contained the 3 herbs in concentrated granule form they would dissolve, you would taste the bitterness of the other herbs and it would look more brown, but in fact it behaves just like qing dai powder which you can buy for a tiny fraction of the price. I bought this first in 2014 and I believe it did contain the 3 herbs including a more expensive concentrated and refined light blue qing dai, but since then they have resorted to just using unrefined blue/grey qing dai which is much cheaper. It may work but you are being lied to and ripped off and the bottle is mislabelled. You are probably also going to have to take more for it to work. So my advice is to buy regular qing dai powder from a reputable brand or supplier. You can mix and soak it in water and just drink the blue water. The black solids will settle out. You can also buy the other herbs as concentrated powders and they are good too. I also used patrinia (bai jiang cao) which is commonly used for colitis.


Thanks Jo-nock

That is very useful. Can you post a link to where you buy yours from? Also how is it helping your symptoms now?

Take care
Ulcerative Colitis since July 2000

Pred 20mg
Upadacitinib clinical trial - since October 2017
Colazide 6.75g
Entyvio Vedolizumab (since January 2010) - STOPPED Oct 2016 - Lost response
Azathiporine 125mg - STOPPED due to clinical trial

Jo-nock
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Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 7/17/2018 2:31 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm not sure I can give links here, but I'm in the UK and the seller is on Ebay with also their own website selling concentrated powders by Koda pharmaceuticals of Taiwan. The qing dai itself is packaged by them not Koda. There are other suppliers with high positive feedback but not so good value but I haven't tried their qing dai. btw I'm not 100% sure if settling out the black part removes any active constituents but it still appears to work for me. The blue appears to be suspended rather than dissolving. People may prefer to capsule the powder or stir it up in hot water and drink the lot to be sure. Mostly the solids are calcium carbonate and other inorganic minerals. Not sure what the black color is from

Jo-nock
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Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 7/17/2018 2:49 PM (GMT -6)   
In reply to your other question barnsbury. I don't use it continuously. I used it to get rid of severe symptoms in 2014 in a month or so, and occasionally use it as a preventative if I have any sign of inflammation to avoid a flare. I don't use any other medication due to bad reactions to them in the past. I am allergic to NSAIDs. Only other things I think are key are vitamin D and Mercola probiotics which are expensive but the most effective I've used, but I took these after the qing dai because I still wasn't having fully formed stools, although I was free of urgency, bleeding and any discomfort.

Post Edited (Jo-nock) : 7/17/2018 2:03:36 PM (GMT-6)


barnsbury
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Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 479
   Posted 7/18/2018 11:12 AM (GMT -6)   
Jo-nock said...
In reply to your other question barnsbury. I don't use it continuously. I used it to get rid of severe symptoms in 2014 in a month or so, and occasionally use it as a preventative if I have any sign of inflammation to avoid a flare. I don't use any other medication due to bad reactions to them in the past. I am allergic to NSAIDs. Only other things I think are key are vitamin D and Mercola probiotics which are expensive but the most effective I've used, but I took these after the qing dai because I still wasn't having fully formed stools, although I was free of urgency, bleeding and any discomfort.


Thanks Jo. Do you know if the qing dai that you take is the same or similar to Isatis Cooling herbs?
Ulcerative Colitis since July 2000

Pred 20mg
Upadacitinib clinical trial - since October 2017
Colazide 6.75g
Entyvio Vedolizumab (since January 2010) - STOPPED Oct 2016 - Lost response
Azathiporine 125mg - STOPPED due to clinical trial

HJQuinn
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Date Joined Jan 2018
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 7/25/2018 8:56 PM (GMT -6)   
I order from CCHerbal as well. I think it's easier to take in capsule form and the other ingredients are supposed to make the quing dai more effective. I believe if you experience headache or constipation you can reduce the dose and you should be fine. It's a powerful anti inflammatory and our body may need to adjust to it. It has worked great for me! I've been in remission now for a few months.

barnsbury
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Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 479
   Posted 7/26/2018 1:41 AM (GMT -6)   
HJQuinn said...
I order from CCHerbal as well. I think it's easier to take in capsule form and the other ingredients are supposed to make the quing dai more effective. I believe if you experience headache or constipation you can reduce the dose and you should be fine. It's a powerful anti inflammatory and our body may need to adjust to it. It has worked great for me! I've been in remission now for a few months.


HJQuin - Are you using Isatis Cooling? How long did it take for you to see an improvement in your UC?

Thanks

UCdee
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Date Joined Jul 2016
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 7/26/2018 12:09 PM (GMT -6)   
I have been using Qing Dai for almost a year. It has been very helpful for me just after a couple of days. I stopped all other colitis medicine except still take llialda (though not sure why). I had a pretty bad time with colitis for the past 4 years prior to Qing Dai and my doc was finally going to put me on a biologic. I read about qing dai on this website and decided to give it a try. I get the powder from the Acupunture Atlanta website. They r very Dependable. The manufacturer is Treasures of the East. I take 1/4 tspn in the morning (mixed with yogurt or applesauce) and the same before dinner. I am not totally cured (b/m still loose and sometimes problem due to me not watching my diet) but no urgency, much less b/ms, no blood. I have to still watch what I eat to some extent (for me small amounts of salad, no fried foods, no heavy sauces, no grease). But i did have a colonoscopy the beginning of this month a my doc said "keep doing what you are doing!!". Hope this info helps somebody else too.

Sara14
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Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4538
   Posted 7/28/2018 10:23 PM (GMT -6)   
I know this is old, but Canasa is NOT a steroid and your doctor is a moron for taking you off of it!
34 years old; diagnosed UC March 2007.
Latest scope: 9-29-16: "mild-to-moderate" chronic and active proctosigmoiditis (infectious cause). Battled reoccuring campylobacter & c diff. Oct-Dec 2016. Healthy since Dec. 25, 2016 until I started smoking May 2018. 10 mg pred. Trying to re-quit smoking. Maintenance meds: Delzicol, 6, 2xday; Rowasa nightly; Singular & Allegra for allergies; Xanax

eaglelady
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Date Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 7/30/2018 4:26 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello:

I am glad you'll give Qing Dai a try. I has helped my daughter quite a bit.

I buy empty gel capsules at Sprouts (another health food store might have them also) and fill them with the powder (it takes a little patience but it is not difficult) . You can try 1 or 2 a day.
Nothing gets stain.

Give it a try!!

Jo-nock
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 8/3/2018 2:59 PM (GMT -6)   
barnsbury No it isn't the same as Isastis cooling. I haven't used that myself so I don't know how effective it is. Qing dai is the processed version of just one of the herbs in that formula. The leaves are fermented with lime for a long time I believe and then it is dried to the blue powder form, and can be further processed to a granular or tablet form. The granular form I think is the best

I think qing dai should be taken with other herbs which mitigate it's potential bad effects. One is weakening digestion and studies have suggested it also can damage the ascending colon if taken for long periods. So I was pretty disappointed that they seem to have taken the mu xiang out of CCherbal which is a warming and dispersing herb which may protect against the negative effects on the upper digestive tract and ascending colon. Qing dai is used mainly as an enema or in formulas in China for these reasons.

But it should be OK for a month. It depends on your symptoms. A formula like xiang sha liu jun wan which contains mu xiang may protect against bad effects, if you can't get mu xiang on it's own. Also the herb huang qin which was also in CCherbal and which is also antiinflammatory for the colon can reduce the amount of qing dai needed. So can using other herbs.
I would not use qing dai long term. Use it occasionally for brief periods after remission or use other herbs like the ones above or patrinia I mentioned before, but they can weaken digestion in excess too as can the Isatis cooling formula, and result in loose stools, gas, weakness etc, but not bleeding and inflammation

barnsbury
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 479
   Posted 8/4/2018 2:04 AM (GMT -6)   
Jo-nock said...
barnsbury No it isn't the same as Isastis cooling. I haven't used that myself so I don't know how effective it is. Qing dai is the processed version of just one of the herbs in that formula. The leaves are fermented with lime for a long time I believe and then it is dried to the blue powder form, and can be further processed to a granular or tablet form. The granular form I think is the best

I think qing dai should be taken with other herbs which mitigate it's potential bad effects. One is weakening digestion and studies have suggested it also can damage the ascending colon if taken for long periods. So I was pretty disappointed that they seem to have taken the mu xiang out of CCherbal which is a warming and dispersing herb which may protect against the negative effects on the upper digestive tract and ascending colon. Qing dai is used mainly as an enema or in formulas in China for these reasons.

But it should be OK for a month. It depends on your symptoms. A formula like xiang sha liu jun wan which contains mu xiang may protect against bad effects, if you can't get mu xiang on it's own. Also the herb huang qin which was also in CCherbal and which is also antiinflammatory for the colon can reduce the amount of qing dai needed. So can using other herbs.
I would not use qing dai long term. Use it occasionally for brief periods after remission or use other herbs like the ones above or patrinia I mentioned before, but they can weaken digestion in excess too as can the Isatis cooling formula, and result in loose stools, gas, weakness etc, but not bleeding and inflammation


Thanks Jo-nock. That is really useful information. I didnt realise so much care had to be taken around these herbs.

Jo-nock
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Date Joined Dec 2010
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 8/4/2018 3:51 PM (GMT -6)   
If you've read the studies on qing dai, an interesting thing is the effect of the dosage. When the results of three dosages were compared; 0.5g, 1g and 2g, there was an increase in clinical results with each higher dose, but the best mucosal healing occurred with the 1g dose, and also the most remissions occurred with the 1g dose. So more people had symptom reduction from the 2g dose but actual healing and remission occurred best at 1g. Higher doses over 1g therefore, while reducing symptoms may also prevent or delay full healing.

There's limited studies done so far of course and peoples symptoms vary.
Also we don't know if different brands or sources of qing dai have different strengths, so if you're treating yourself it's pretty much trial and error. Just be cautious not to overdo it.

barnsbury
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 479
   Posted 8/5/2018 4:37 AM (GMT -6)   
Jo-nock said...
If you've read the studies on qing dai, an interesting thing is the effect of the dosage. When the results of three dosages were compared; 0.5g, 1g and 2g, there was an increase in clinical results with each higher dose, but the best mucosal healing occurred with the 1g dose, and also the most remissions occurred with the 1g dose. So more people had symptom reduction from the 2g dose but actual healing and remission occurred best at 1g. Higher doses over 1g therefore, while reducing symptoms may also prevent or delay full healing.

There's limited studies done so far of course and peoples symptoms vary.
Also we don't know if different brands or sources of qing dai have different strengths, so if you're treating yourself it's pretty much trial and error. Just be cautious not to overdo it.


Oh that is strange. I would have thought the more you take the better the healing! Good to know. Thanks
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