Your Senators will be voting this week to label you with Pre-existing Conditions

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IamCurious
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 3071
   Posted 7/6/2017 12:04 PM (GMT -7)   
stereofidelic89 said...
Where exactly will this pot of gold come from? We're going to start taxing one-another immensely so, that you and I will have to work longer hours to pay in more taxes, pay a bit to the government to slap a mandate on it again, all so we can all share BASIC healthcare privileges. None of us would likely be able to get the care we need without paying an arm and a leg.


Please refer to the previous posts in this thread and in many previous threads: Cutting out the middle men is where we will find the pot of gold. Lets say this once again:
The fact is Europe and much of Asia pay half of what we pay on health care relative to GDP, and they get better results judging from longevity and health statistics. And in most countries everyone is covered with little or no cost for the individual.

This is because those countries have government health care for everyone without the need for Big Pharma and insurance companies to gouge the rest of America by acting as middle men. Show me just one developed country with government health care, single-payer or whatever, please name just one country that pays more for health care than we do.

This is why insurance and drug companies are fighting so hard to keep their privileged position:
latest disclosure said...
UnitedHealth Group: CEO compensation: $17.6 million; pay of next four highest paid employees combined: $37.6 million. 
 
Humana, CEO compensation: $19.7 million; next four highest paid employees: $20.0 million. 
 
Secretary of HHS (who would be in charge in government sponsored single-payer health insurance): about $250,000, give or take.

Bull101
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 454
   Posted 7/6/2017 12:44 PM (GMT -7)   
IamCurious said...
stereofidelic89 said...
Where exactly will this pot of gold come from? We're going to start taxing one-another immensely so, that you and I will have to work longer hours to pay in more taxes, pay a bit to the government to slap a mandate on it again, all so we can all share BASIC healthcare privileges. None of us would likely be able to get the care we need without paying an arm and a leg.


Please refer to the previous posts in this thread and in many previous threads: Cutting out the middle men is where we will find the pot of gold. Lets say this once again:
The fact is Europe and much of Asia pay half of what we pay on health care relative to GDP, and they get better results judging from longevity and health statistics. And in most countries everyone is covered with little or no cost for the individual.

This is because those countries have government health care for everyone without the need for Big Pharma and insurance companies to gouge the rest of America by acting as middle men. Show me just one developed country with government health care, single-payer or whatever, please name just one country that pays more for health care than we do.

This is why insurance and drug companies are fighting so hard to keep their privileged position:
latest disclosure said...
UnitedHealth Group: CEO compensation: $17.6 million; pay of next four highest paid employees combined: $37.6 million. 
 
Humana, CEO compensation: $19.7 million; next four highest paid employees: $20.0 million. 
 
Secretary of HHS (who would be in charge in government sponsored single-payer health insurance): about $250,000, give or take.


How many more sick people does the US have compared to those countries, that actually get treated, which causes a loss for the system?

ks1905
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 4801
   Posted 7/6/2017 1:02 PM (GMT -7)   
Bull101 said...

How many more sick people does the US have compared to those countries, that actually get treated, which causes a loss for the system?


Most of the sickest and all the people over 65 are already on Governement Healthcare. Adding people who are healthy would lower the per capita cost of care.

Many nations are able to do this for less % of GDP and cover more people.

Many of the nations are NOT single payer (government) but universal healthcare (Private public partnership) but they require everyone to be insured and give subsides. That's what France and Switzerland do.
Keith

DX'd with Severe Pancolitis June 2005
Previous Meds: 5ASAs, Predisone, 6-MP. Remicade, Humira, Simponi, Cimzia & Cyclosporine
3-step J-Pouch surgery: 2013 & 2014

Current Condition: Chronic Pouchitis -- Not as bad as I thought it would be
Current Meds: Stelara
Total Hip Replacement: 12/16 -- Thanks Prednisone!!!
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=3755226

Bull101
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 454
   Posted 7/6/2017 1:48 PM (GMT -7)   
You're not getting my point.....those European countries (I'd confidently guess) have less sick people in comparison to healthy people which means less total cost compared to revenue generated through taxes to pay for that healthcare. More sick people = more cost. Since insurance, and healthcare in general, works in a way that you need a lot more healthy people to pay a little to cover huge costs of sick people (I'm talking not just a little cold), the more sick you have, means you'd need an exponentially higher number of healthy people to pay for.

My guess is Europe can afford it because that number of sick is a lot lower even in ratios compared to the US which causes their lower costs.

ks1905
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 4801
   Posted 7/6/2017 1:57 PM (GMT -7)   
If their Population is actually healthier it is because they've had healthcare their entire lives. It lowers their overall costs because they are cared for by doctors throughout their lives and had preventive screenings. It's a long game.
Keith

DX'd with Severe Pancolitis June 2005
Previous Meds: 5ASAs, Predisone, 6-MP. Remicade, Humira, Simponi, Cimzia & Cyclosporine
3-step J-Pouch surgery: 2013 & 2014

Current Condition: Chronic Pouchitis -- Not as bad as I thought it would be
Current Meds: Stelara
Total Hip Replacement: 12/16 -- Thanks Prednisone!!!
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=3755226

notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 15384
   Posted 7/6/2017 6:27 PM (GMT -7)   
You guys are funny. If everyone's going to pay all their hard earned wages to take care of everyone, I am going to get taken care of too. Why am I on the wheel? I am tired of it personally. I would do the absolute minimum if I had free healthcare. Forget this corporate rat race. Make less, pay less in, heck, maybe I would work a cash gig and not pay in at all - I'd still get taken care of. Sounds fantastic...
Co-moderator: Ulcerative Colitis
Currently: no meds. 6/15 Step One J-pouch Surgery Complete! 9/15 Step Two Complete! 11/15 Step 3 Complete!

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.

Coffeemate
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2012
Total Posts : 192
   Posted 7/6/2017 6:44 PM (GMT -7)   
notsosicklygirl said...
You guys are funny. If everyone's going to pay all their hard earned wages to take care of everyone, I am going to get taken care of too. Why am I on the wheel? I am tired of it personally. I would do the absolute minimum if I had free healthcare. Forget this corporate rat race. Make less, pay less in, heck, maybe I would work a cash gig and not pay in at all - I'd still get taken care of. Sounds fantastic...


You could get away with that if you lived in Europe

notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 15384
   Posted 7/6/2017 6:47 PM (GMT -7)   
That would be nice. I notice that you don't get much further if you do a lot vs. doing a little - and your quality of life isn't necessarily better either! Either you're born with it, or you're not. One in a million gets out of a hole they were born in.
Co-moderator: Ulcerative Colitis
Currently: no meds. 6/15 Step One J-pouch Surgery Complete! 9/15 Step Two Complete! 11/15 Step 3 Complete!

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.

Old Hat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 5135
   Posted 7/6/2017 7:43 PM (GMT -7)   
People here who criticize single-payer seem to be influenced by the old anecdotes of Ronald Reagan denouncing "welfare queens". IT'S WAY PAST TIME TO GIVE UP THIS SIMPLISTIC, UNREAL ARGUMENT!!!!! When we pay taxes to support humane government programs, such as progressive public health & education, it ultimately benefits ALL of us, whether or not we have children. We are part of a society: face up to this! Human beings cannot thrive in isolation. A couple yrs ago I was saved from a scary malignant (non-GI) tumor by a young female surgeon who accepted my insurance when most established males in that field would not; she had been brought to the USA as a small child by immigrant parents from an Asian country with millions more poor people than the U.S. has, was educated here & graduated with honors, then spent a yr in AmeriCorps before med school. *** Paying taxes to finance health care & education benefits our country; having the bulk of our taxes diverted to prison & military contractors & their expensive hardware projects does not-- that is essentially where massive waste of public funds (i.e. taxes) occurs, AND responsible U.S. legislators have been fighting to curb this latter spending ever since Strontium 90 radioactivity from nuclear testing fallout showed up in our country's dairy cattle 50 yrs ago. *** "Prevention is the only viable solution to many of today's most vexing health care issues", said U.S. Surgeon General Jesse Steinfeld in the early 1970s, before he was obliged by then-Prez Nixon to resign-- because the tobacco industry objected to his critiques. Today the private health insurers are similarly fighting humane government policies that benefit the population-at-large over corporate profits!!!!!! THANK YOU, KEITH, FOR STARTING THIS HUMANE THREAD to help all of us. / Old Hat (36 yrs with left-sided UC; presently in remission taking brandname Colazal)

ks1905
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 4801
   Posted 7/6/2017 7:58 PM (GMT -7)   
notsosicklygirl said...
You guys are funny. If everyone's going to pay all their hard earned wages to take care of everyone, I am going to get taken care of too. Why am I on the wheel? I am tired of it personally. I would do the absolute minimum if I had free healthcare. Forget this corporate rat race. Make less, pay less in, heck, maybe I would work a cash gig and not pay in at all - I'd still get taken care of. Sounds fantastic...


Move to Europe or Canada and pay a VAT/GST tax. It's a much fairer tax and you'd probably be happier. Most of these countries work less hours and have a higher standard of living than the US.
Keith

DX'd with Severe Pancolitis June 2005
Previous Meds: 5ASAs, Predisone, 6-MP. Remicade, Humira, Simponi, Cimzia & Cyclosporine
3-step J-Pouch surgery: 2013 & 2014

Current Condition: Chronic Pouchitis -- Not as bad as I thought it would be
Current Meds: Stelara
Total Hip Replacement: 12/16 -- Thanks Prednisone!!!
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=3755226

damo123
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 713
   Posted 7/7/2017 1:18 AM (GMT -7)   
Once again Europe miles ahead of USA on such issues. Better health systems, fairer, better funded and less political issues as we have seen crop up over last few months.

Bull101
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 454
   Posted 7/7/2017 6:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Have any of you actually ever lived in Europe? Or have relatives living in Europe? The grass always looks greener....

beatUC
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 1406
   Posted 7/7/2017 6:28 AM (GMT -7)   
I lived in Europe for many years, as far as medical coverage goes, the grass is indeed much greener than the USA. It's just a fact, regardless of how the Repugs lie about it. It's time the United States joined the rest of the industrialized world providing healthcare for its citizens. Medical care is a right, not a privilege, its shameful that the wealthiest country in the world has people dying and becoming homeless due to the lack of medical coverage. This simply never happens in Europe.

notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 15384
   Posted 7/7/2017 6:38 AM (GMT -7)   
You could always drink your urine and make cabbage juice. That's all you need to live a long healthy life.
Co-moderator: Ulcerative Colitis
Currently: no meds. 6/15 Step One J-pouch Surgery Complete! 9/15 Step Two Complete! 11/15 Step 3 Complete!

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.

ks1905
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 4801
   Posted 7/7/2017 6:57 AM (GMT -7)   
notsosicklygirl said...
You could always drink your urine and make cabbage juice. That's all you need to live a long healthy life.


Yeah, I read that on the internet too.
Keith

DX'd with Severe Pancolitis June 2005
Previous Meds: 5ASAs, Predisone, 6-MP. Remicade, Humira, Simponi, Cimzia & Cyclosporine
3-step J-Pouch surgery: 2013 & 2014

Current Condition: Chronic Pouchitis -- Not as bad as I thought it would be
Current Meds: Stelara
Total Hip Replacement: 12/16 -- Thanks Prednisone!!!
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=3755226

iPoop
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 10985
   Posted 7/7/2017 10:18 AM (GMT -7)   
Now this thread is just getting silly...

I tend to think anything has got to be better than the USA healthcare system, and the rest of the world over has a system that appears to be at least better (is the EU system 100% perfect, I doubt it but at least the cost and patient results do speak volumes).

As far as the USA healthcare system, Trump and Obama are both just putting lipstick on a pig: one is using pink lipstick and other is using red lipstick, and they both boldly claiming that they've made the better choice and finally fixed it. No matter which way you argue about it, you still have a frigg'n pig with lipstick on it. It's really got to be something completely new from the ground-up, not just tiny tweaks to a failed system, if you really want to fix it.
Moderator Ulcerative Colitis
John
, 39, UC Proctosigmoiditis
Rx: Remicade @5mgs/kg/6wks; daily 75mgs 6MP, 4.8g Lialda, and 2X rowasa

I'm only speeding because I have to poop really, really badly!

Post Edited (iPoop) : 7/7/2017 11:25:49 AM (GMT-6)


MarjieKay
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2017
Total Posts : 611
   Posted 7/7/2017 10:47 AM (GMT -7)   
Old Hat said...
When we pay taxes to support humane government programs, such as progressive public health & education, it ultimately benefits ALL of us, whether or not we have children. We are part of a society: face up to this! Human beings cannot thrive in isolation.


Beautifully stated.

notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 15384
   Posted 7/7/2017 10:57 AM (GMT -7)   
iPoop said...
Now this thread is just getting silly...



Silly? Cabbage juice + urine, and if you're still having troubles, you could throw in some ginger or clay for the WIN. Or cooked cabbage is always useful in medical treatment. hahaha.

kidding of course. tongue
Co-moderator: Ulcerative Colitis
Currently: no meds. 6/15 Step One J-pouch Surgery Complete! 9/15 Step Two Complete! 11/15 Step 3 Complete!

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.

Serenity Now
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2044
   Posted 7/7/2017 11:59 AM (GMT -7)   
Yes nssg, you are being silly. And for a moderator, I am surprised at you. Everyone knows the answer is eating 20 bananas a day, every day.
Female, 50, Vancouver BC
Pancolitis: Currently in remission

Jan-Mar2009: Asacol HD. Resulted in severe joint pain and no discernible benefit.
May26-Sep4/2016: Mezavant 4800 mg
Sep5/2016 - : Mezavant 2400 mg

ks1905
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 4801
   Posted 7/7/2017 1:02 PM (GMT -7)   
iPoop said...

As far as the USA healthcare system, Trump and Obama are both just putting lipstick on a pig: one is using pink lipstick and other is using red lipstick, and they both boldly claiming that they've made the better choice and finally fixed it. No matter which way you argue about it, you still have a frigg'n pig with lipstick on it. It's really got to be something completely new from the ground-up, not just tiny tweaks to a failed system, if you really want to fix it.


What fixes has Trump proposed? I thought Trump had nothing to do with this bill, which is part of the GOP's problems. No one has built a consensus in the GOP party on what to do.

Too be honest, this is a tax bill and is considered a tax bill by the Senate parliamentarian otherwise it couldn't make it through the Senate without 60 votes. Financial/Budgetary votes only require 51 votes (and they're having a hard time getting that). The only thing about HC in this bill is the name of it. They are removing healthcare funding for people to the tune of 22 million americans and giving tax breaks upwards of 880 billion.
Keith

DX'd with Severe Pancolitis June 2005
Previous Meds: 5ASAs, Predisone, 6-MP. Remicade, Humira, Simponi, Cimzia & Cyclosporine
3-step J-Pouch surgery: 2013 & 2014

Current Condition: Chronic Pouchitis -- Not as bad as I thought it would be
Current Meds: Stelara
Total Hip Replacement: 12/16 -- Thanks Prednisone!!!
www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=3755226

iPoop
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 10985
   Posted 7/7/2017 1:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Since the ACA's passage, the republicans have consistently suggested a series of small changes, like shopping for insurance across state lines, and other similar small changes.
Moderator Ulcerative Colitis
John
, 39, UC Proctosigmoiditis
Rx: Remicade @5mgs/kg/6wks; daily 75mgs 6MP, 4.8g Lialda, and 2X rowasa

I'm only speeding because I have to poop really, really badly!

notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 15384
   Posted 7/7/2017 3:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Poop is right. The whole system sucks. In reality, ACA sucks, at least it helped some people, but we are trying to polish a turd here, and we all know how that goes. Insurance companies themselves are garbage. People's health should come before profits, but how can it when it all comes down to making money and looking good to stockholders/investors? Companies will always put their own profits before their customers. They will always give their CEOs millions of dollars in bonuses before taking care of the people who pay into the system - funny thing is, those CEOs could be replaced with someone else tomorrow and it wouldn't matter. The majority of them serve barely any purpose. They begin employment at a time of stability, and they never make a decision that matters enough to change the company's health. They are insignificant. Oh well, onward with polishing that turd and acting like it makes a difference.

Bananas you say??? I haven't seen that one come up in a while. Cactus juice can do the trick for some too, don't forget about good ol' cactus juice.
Co-moderator: Ulcerative Colitis
Currently: no meds. 6/15 Step One J-pouch Surgery Complete! 9/15 Step Two Complete! 11/15 Step 3 Complete!

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.

Old Hat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 5135
   Posted 7/7/2017 5:43 PM (GMT -7)   
The only thing that Trump is interested in doing, besides marketing his daughter's clothing line in China & constantly denouncing the major media, is destroying every program that was introduced or improved during the Obama administration. Does he propose anything positive or equitable, or even logical or reasonable? NO, NO, NO!!!!!!!!!! He is a disgrace to the U.S. Presidency. Period. (Just like Rob Ford, the ex-mayor of Toronto-- who smoked crack, BTW.) / Old Hat (36 yrs with left-sided UC; presently in remission taking brandname Colazal)

Serenity Now
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2044
   Posted 7/7/2017 8:05 PM (GMT -7)   
The late ex-mayor, actually.

(nssg, I was actually thinking of trying the cactus juice. If it had been easier to find around here, I likely would have. blush )
Female, 50, Vancouver BC
Pancolitis: Currently in remission

Jan-Mar2009: Asacol HD. Resulted in severe joint pain and no discernible benefit.
May26-Sep4/2016: Mezavant 4800 mg
Sep5/2016 - : Mezavant 2400 mg

Old Hat
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 5135
   Posted 7/9/2017 5:17 PM (GMT -7)   
Keith-- You should send a copy of your letter to Senator Gillibrand, too. She has been active on health care issues since her time in the House. Per New Yorker mag, etc. Schumer got more involved lately-- because a group of constituents in Brooklyn calling themselves "What the ****, Chuck!" started pursuing him on grounds that he was too soft on our new Prez. (It had seemed that way to me, also-- especially in comparison to my Congressman, who stays on top of health care, civil liberties, etc.) / Old Hat (36 yrs with left-sided UC; presently in remission taking brandname Colazal)
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