Life Insurance

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dinkydonuts
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 6/14/2018 11:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Is my understanding correct that we're all basically screwed when it comes to buying life insurance? I have been fortunate enough to get it through my employer, and I have a cash policy from when I was young, but I think we all get automatically denied if we apply for a policy out of the blue?

iPoop
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 13005
   Posted 6/14/2018 12:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Certainly group insurance option, usually Term Life, are your best bet as they cannot deny you, nor can they ask for a physical, nor ask for a health history. In the private insurance market they can do any of those things, and charge you a higher rate or deny you coverage based on their findings.

I have only a Permanent Life insurance policy with a guaranteed cash value, that my parents initiated when I was still an infant. Won't make my spouse rich by any means, but might pay enough for a wooden box to plant me in a field somewhere lol.
Moderator Ulcerative Colitis
John
, 40, UC Proctosigmoiditis
Rx: Remicade @5mgs/kg/6wks; daily 75mgs 6MP, 4.8g generic-Lialda, and rowasa

My reviews on Yelp and Trip Adviser will be terrible: @$10,000 a night with uncomfortable beds and awful food, but at least the drugs are good at this hospital.

notsosicklygirl
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 16562
   Posted 6/14/2018 12:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Life insurance plans seem to be a scam in my opinion. Usually when you get to a certain age, the prices go up so high per month, that maintaining them is more expensive than putting the money in the bank and saving. I bet my father would have put a 100k aside by this point with all the payments he's made. They finally increased the monthly payment up above what he was willing to pay. It was up at $1000 a month as he's in his 70s. He had to forfeit all the money he's put in. The plan was only an 80k payout. He definitely paid in 80k, for what? Sorry, this doesn't answer your question, but just another perspective. If you're planning to leave it to family when you get old, definitely look into whether you will be able to maintain the payments at older age.
Moderator: UC
Currently: no meds 6/15 Step 1 J-pouch Surgery Complete 9/15 Step 2 Complete 11/15 Step 3 Complete
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Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish

straydog
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 16584
   Posted 6/14/2018 12:34 PM (GMT -6)   
It depends on the company when buying it private. By the way, I have never seen the question of UC or AI diseases being asked on an application. The usual questions are about severe conditions involving the heart, lungs, cancer & aids. A lot of company's do not require a physical. Be sure to look at your company policy closely & here is why. My husband worked & retired from a company after 37 years. When he turned 70, the policy became null & void. There was no reimbursement of any of the premiums he paid all of those years either. This is not uncommon at all. This has happened with many of our friends too. Read the fine print! Had we known this, we could have put that money in another account somewhere.
Susie
Moderator in Chronic Pain & Psoriasis Forums

iPoop
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Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 13005
   Posted 6/14/2018 12:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Susie, that's typical of a Term Life policy. Essentially, paying money for benefits given to a spouse/survivor should you/I die during the policy period. If you/employer stop paying the policy then the benefits vanish. Term Policy values are only guaranteed while enrolled. When you retire, you may not be able to continue the eomplyer-paid policy solo, on your own.

Permanent Life insurance policies have guaranteed policy payouts, even should you stop paying. More expensive but at least you're not throwing away money... The payout for survivors is typically a lot less though.

dinkydonuts
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 6/14/2018 1:07 PM (GMT -6)   
straydog said...
It depends on the company when buying it private. By the way, I have never seen the question of UC or AI diseases being asked on an application. The usual questions are about severe conditions involving the heart, lungs, cancer & aids. A lot of company's do not require a physical. Be sure to look at your company policy closely & here is why. My husband worked & retired from a company after 37 years. When he turned 70, the policy became null & void. There was no reimbursement of any of the premiums he paid all of those years either. This is not uncommon at all. This has happened with many of our friends too. Read the fine print! Had we known this, we could have put that money in another account somewhere.


I think I once applied for a policy with Mutual of Omaha and the questionnaire asked about any diseases. I put down UC and they denied me for that reason.

Next time I apply for a policy, I'll see if the wording is specific to cancer/heart/lung conditions.

But the problem is, I think even if you were to get a policy (let's say for $10 Mil), if you died for any reason related to your UC, the insurer would just deny the payout. I hear this is quite common.

valli1234
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2017
Total Posts : 170
   Posted 6/21/2018 9:04 AM (GMT -6)   
I have had UC since I was 23 off and on for years and no one would ever insure me. I went into remission around 2008 and it wasn't until I was in remission for 9 years when finally a bank insured me for 150,000 it's not a lot but its something. I would call every year and always get denied.
I got the policy around 2016 and in 2017 I had my worst flare up and had my whole colon removed along with weeks of hospital stays. I am grateful I now have something for my children. It costs me $25.00 a month just wish I purchased a larger policy at the time. When I travel now I pay $250.00 for one week to leave Canada which sucks since I travel a few times a year.
47 year old female mother of 4
UC since 1993 remission off and on
The last flare-up was 2008 till 2009 then remission till June 2017
Hospitalized November for 5 weeks removed my colon Dec 12
Anemia 4 blood transfusions in those 5 weeks.
prednisone, asacol, pentasa,encort enemas, steriod enemas, hurmia all failed
Proctitis Jan 2018
March 19 2nd surgery J pouch
Next surgery late July ( take down )

EvanHimself
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 30
   Posted 6/21/2018 4:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I'm actually in the market for some term life insurance myself. I'm getting to that age where the employer life insurance is starting to increase every year and annual premiums for private insurance are going to increase year after year at a greater rate. My wife was able to get life insurance by using Zander. She was in her late 30's with chronic immune system health issues and they were able to find an insurer for her at a reasonable premium. I'll be checking out Zander and my bank (USAA).

I like term life insurance over any of the other types because term it is way less expensive and I'd prefer to take the savings (difference in premiums between term and other life insurance products) and put that money into my retirement investments where I actually see excellent long term growth. The alternative is do buy a whole life insurance product (many types available with minor differences) where you can get the money you paid in premiums over the years back at any time with some intrest, but after fees and penalties you pretty much get similar intrest as your savings account (much much much less than you would see from retirement investments).

From what I've seen whole life typically costs 2 to 3 times as much as term. So, for example, let's say you're yearly premium for term is $1,000/yr. Comparably whole life might be around $3,000/yr (just making numbers up for illustration purposes). If you purchase term for $1,000/yr and put that $2,000/yr difference into a retirement investment, such as an IRA, you'll average around 10% growth over the long term (based on index funds such as DOW). That essential means your money doubles every 7 years (compounded growth). So over the course of 20 years your $2,000/yr put into an IRA will turn into $115,000 which is a good amount more than the $60,000 you'd get from the whole life insurance at the end of 20 years. Actually the comparison would be more like $95,000 to $65,000 ($115,000 - the premium you paid ($1,000 X 20) = $95,000 compared to $3,000/yr x 20 yrs + compound interest at a generous 1% growth = $65,000 for whole life).

That's a lot to take in but that's my interpretation which I've seen other places as well.

Another thing to consider and I think was said before is that it is very important to disclose all your current and historic health problems! The police will be null and void if you don't and they won't refund what you paid in. So don't leave anything out.
~37 year old male
~Diagnosed with severe UC (pancolitis) Sep, 2017
~Currently on Pentasa (1g 4x/day), Wellbutrin (150mg 2x/day) and Klonopin (.5mg before bed - sleep like a baby)
~Have used prednisone and rowasa in the past
~Allergic to flagyl sad
~Been in remission since winter of 2017

UCinGV
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 403
   Posted 6/22/2018 11:59 AM (GMT -6)   
3-4 years after my diagnosis, around 2009, I got a 30-year $750k life insurance policy for $150/month. I told them about the ulcerative colitis. I don't remember if they specifically asked about it.

A few years later I got another quote, and they did ask about the colitis, and it was slightly more expensive than that policy I already had.

One thing I learned on the second application, is that when you apply for life insurance, answer all the questions honestly, but do not volunteer any extra information they didn't ask for. Volunteering information they didn't ask can only hurt you and cannot help you. So if they don't ask about gastrointestinal or autoimmune diseases, don't tell them.

Another tip I heard, is that when you want to get life insurance but you have something bad like ulcerative colitis, apply to multiple places at once so you can honestly tell them all "No" when they all always ask "Have you ever been turned down on a life insurance application?" If you apply to one at a time, if the first one turns you down, that will be a red flag for all the others.

UCinGV
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 403
   Posted 6/22/2018 12:05 PM (GMT -6)   
notsosicklygirl said...
Life insurance plans seem to be a scam in my opinion. Usually when you get to a certain age, the prices go up so high per month, that maintaining them is more expensive than putting the money in the bank and saving. I bet my father would have put a 100k aside by this point with all the payments he's made. They finally increased the monthly payment up above what he was willing to pay. It was up at $1000 a month as he's in his 70s. He had to forfeit all the money he's put in. The plan was only an 80k payout. He definitely paid in 80k, for what? Sorry, this doesn't answer your question, but just another perspective. If you're planning to leave it to family when you get old, definitely look into whether you will be able to maintain the payments at older age.


Here's another perspective.

The purpose of life insurance is, in the unlikely event of your premature death, to pay for your dependents who aren't able to pay for themselves, if you don't have a large enough inheritance to leave them. When you're in your 70s, your children are typically expected to be financially self-sufficient, and you hopefully have enough saved up for your spouse, and/or they get Social Security.

If you pay your auto insurance, or your health insurance all your life but you don't get in any wrecks and don't get sick you should consider yourself blessed, and not fret over all that money you paid to insure against something that didn't happen. Because it might have happened, and you would have been protected. You didn't know what unexpected things were going to happen, but you paid to be protected regardless of what happened.

Same thing for life insurance.

Post Edited (UCinGV) : 6/22/2018 11:13:17 AM (GMT-6)


notsosicklygirl
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 16562
   Posted 6/22/2018 2:32 PM (GMT -6)   
My dad was trying to give us his life insurance since he has nothing else, but unfortunately, that didn't work out for him. We are all old enough to support ourselves at this point, but some type of inheritance could be the difference between living well and just surviving. The life insurance wouldn't have made any difference, as the payout was low. It wouldn't enable anyone to change their lives for the better. Even if it paid out, the amount was low, and if you split it, people would get like 20k each. We could buy a car or pay rent for a while... Nothing life changing. I don't have any dependents, so for me, it's obvious. If I die, i have no one to look out for. I have life insurance through work and I wouldn't even care who got the payout.
Moderator: UC
Currently: no meds 6/15 Step 1 J-pouch Surgery Complete 9/15 Step 2 Complete 11/15 Step 3 Complete
From Sickly to UC Free

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime; give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish

Serenity Now
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 2133
   Posted 6/22/2018 4:39 PM (GMT -6)   
My feeling is that for those of us without dependents the responsible thing to do is to leave enough to cover final costs. If there is absolutely no family then maybe you can just leave the government to sort things out but if you have remaining family (in my case if both my spouse & I were gone, it would be our siblings) they will have to sort out your estate, clear out your dwelling, have some kind of funeral or whatever. There are always some costs involved. I don't want to stick anyone with that. If you have sufficient net assets your survivors would inherit, then insurance is not necessary (you are essentially self-insured). Otherwise I would want some minimal amount.
Female, 51, Vancouver BC
Pancolitis: Currently in remission

Jan-Mar2009: Asacol HD. Resulted in severe joint pain and no discernible benefit.
May26-Sep4/2016: Mezavant 4800 mg
Sep5/2016 - : Mezavant 2400 mg

EvanHimself
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2017
Total Posts : 30
   Posted 6/23/2018 9:52 AM (GMT -6)   
UCinGV said...
3-4 years after my diagnosis, around 2009, I got a 30-year $750k life insurance policy for $150/month. I told them about the ulcerative colitis. I don't remember if they specifically asked about it.

A few years later I got another quote, and they did ask about the colitis, and it was slightly more expensive than that policy I already had.

One thing I learned on the second application, is that when you apply for life insurance, answer all the questions honestly, but do not volunteer any extra information they didn't ask for. Volunteering information they didn't ask can only hurt you and cannot help you. So if they don't ask about gastrointestinal or autoimmune diseases, don't tell them.

Another tip I heard, is that when you want to get life insurance but you have something bad like ulcerative colitis, apply to multiple places at once so you can honestly tell them all "No" when they all always ask "Have you ever been turned down on a life insurance application?" If you apply to one at a time, if the first one turns you down, that will be a red flag for all the others.


I'm guessing by the premium you have a term policy; can you confirm this. Also how old were you when you got that policy?

On your point about applying with multiple insurers at the same time, going with an insurance broker doe just that. Like I said, we used Zander but there are others. An insurance broker has dozens to hundreds of insurers they work with and you only need to apply once with them and take the physical once. They then get quotes from everybody they work with and pass along the best responses. Once you select one they get it set up for you.

Anyway, good luck everyone and as you look around remember that you shouldn't use life insurance as a savings/investment tool, it's a rip off when done that way.

When I get through the process I'll come back and post how things worked out.
~37 year old male
~Diagnosed with severe UC (pancolitis) Sep, 2017
~Currently on Pentasa (1g 4x/day), Wellbutrin (150mg 2x/day) and Klonopin (.5mg before bed - sleep like a baby)
~Have used prednisone and rowasa in the past
~Allergic to flagyl
~Was in remission since winter of 2017, mild flare began May 2018 - getting colonoscopy the end of June - GI may switch me to a biologic after colonoscopy

RoyalFlush
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2015
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 6/25/2018 6:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi all,
I, too, have UC (left-sided) and I own an Insurance Marketing Organization (Abbreviated: IMO). We handle annuities, life insurance and Long-Term Care. I currently have a Universal Life (UL) policy, which is a lifetime/permanent policy, rated at Standard Non-Tobacco (ratings start at preferred plus, preferred, standard plus, standard, and then standard with table ratings).

Depending on the carrier, you may get standard, you may get standard with a table rating of 4, or you may be declined. Carriers focus on certain areas where to be competitive. For example, Prudential will accept someone using smokeless tobacco as standard plus non-tobacco, whereas almost every other carrier places this applicant in a tobacco rating.

Therefore, you should shop carriers to see who will offer the best pricing. You can fill out an anonymous informal questionnaire regarding UC and have your agent shop it around. You can get your medical records from your Gastro doc and have your agent use his/her “IMO” to hand it to an internal underwriter to find the best carrier which to apply. Please note the 800 numbers to call for term insurance will most likely not offer these pre-review services.

Here are some corrections from posts above:

In the private insurance market they can do any of those <ask health history, deny app, ask for physical> things, and charge you a higher rate or deny you coverage based on their findings.

This is somewhat true. Non-group insurance is issued on an individual basis ranging from preferred plus non- tobacco through standard tobacco with a high table rating (and decline). Policies asking you for a physical, or a paramed exam (blood draw, urine specimen, physical measurements, blood pressure, and health questions) will provide a huge savings compared to group insurance. This is because they can approve you at preferred plus, preferred, or standard, whereas group policies must incorporate all health ratings; therefore, group policies have a much higher premium.

----
Life insurance plans seem to be a scam in my opinion. Usually when you get to a certain age, the prices go up so high per month, that maintaining them is more expensive than putting the money in the bank and saving. I bet my father would have put a 100k aside by this point with all the payments he's made. They finally increased the monthly payment up above what he was willing to pay. It was up at $1000 a month as he's in his 70s. He had to forfeit all the money he's put in. The plan was only an 80k payout. He definitely paid in 80k, for what? Sorry, this doesn't answer your question, but just another perspective. If you're planning to leave it to family when you get old, definitely look into whether you will be able to maintain the payments at older age.

Your father most likely had a term policy that went past the guaranteed ‘term’ and continued to pay the annual renewable term rate versus purchasing a new guaranteed term period policy. Or, he purchased a permanent policy (e.g. UL) and did not have a lifetime death benefit guarantee. Under the latter policy, to keep it in force, he would have had to pay higher and higher premiums. I am shaking my head at the advisor who gave that as a solution. I am sorry.

---
By the way, I have never seen the question of UC or AI diseases being asked on an application.

If an application does not specifically ask about diseases of the colon, intestine, etc., the carrier will find your diagnoses through the Medical Information Bureau (MIB). When you are asked, do NOT EVER lie about your diagnosis. Ever. You will be declined and that will go on the insurance database and carriers will see you lied.

Secondarily, there are policies that are ‘guaranteed issue’ or ‘non-med’ which issue at a very high standard rating, sometimes Table 4 or higher (e.g. 200% increase of ‘standard rate’ premiums). Be wary of these, too, because you will overpay for your death benefit when compared to a fully underwritten policy.

Fully underwritten policies are nothing to be afraid of. They will give you the best bang for your buck, provided you do research to which carrier(s) will rate your condition most favorable (e.g. my standard non-tobacco rating).

---
I have had UC since I was 23 off and on for years and no one would ever insure me. I went into remission around 2008 and it wasn't until I was in remission for 9 years when finally a bank insured me for 150,000 it's not a lot but its something. I would call every year and always get denied.

Since I do not work within the banking channels, this may seem biased. It is not; it's information for you to process. Banks (banking channels) have a very limited selection of carriers and products. Almost always, they are not as competitive as an independent agent who can access 100+ carriers. Similarly, advisors with big name companies like NY Life, State Farm, Allstate, Travelers, etc. have reps who are ‘captive’ and can only offer one line of products – from their namesake. You can get a price 50% lower through an independent agent. For example, we offer Prudential and we have lower rates than a Prudential agent.

__
I truly hope this helps and does not muddy the waters more. In summary, years ago UC would be a Table 4 (by miracle) through decline. Recently, thankfully, knowledge about our condition has increased, treatments improved, life expectancy improvements, etc. has made UC more acceptable. Heck, if I can get a guy with 4 heart attacks, a pacemaker, and diabetes coverage, we should be able to get excellent coverage!
-1997 left sided colitis.
-Taking 2 Lialda 1.2gm in a.m., Folic acid, Probiotics, Juice (in the morning from a juicer), Nopal juice (12-16 oz in the morning, about 5x per week for two weeks which helped - presently not taking)
-Originally on Asacol 3x per day, then Colazal; Lialda for a while now

UCinGV
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 403
   Posted 6/28/2018 8:34 AM (GMT -6)   
EvanHimself said...
UCinGV said...
3-4 years after my diagnosis, around 2009, I got a 30-year $750k life insurance policy for $150/month. I told them about the ulcerative colitis. I don't remember if they specifically asked about it.

A few years later I got another quote, and they did ask about the colitis, and it was slightly more expensive than that policy I already had.

One thing I learned on the second application, is that when you apply for life insurance, answer all the questions honestly, but do not volunteer any extra information they didn't ask for. Volunteering information they didn't ask can only hurt you and cannot help you. So if they don't ask about gastrointestinal or autoimmune diseases, don't tell them.

Another tip I heard, is that when you want to get life insurance but you have something bad like ulcerative colitis, apply to multiple places at once so you can honestly tell them all "No" when they all always ask "Have you ever been turned down on a life insurance application?" If you apply to one at a time, if the first one turns you down, that will be a red flag for all the others.


I'm guessing by the premium you have a term policy; can you confirm this. Also how old were you when you got that policy?

On your point about applying with multiple insurers at the same time, going with an insurance broker doe just that. Like I said, we used Zander but there are others. An insurance broker has dozens to hundreds of insurers they work with and you only need to apply once with them and take the physical once. They then get quotes from everybody they work with and pass along the best responses. Once you select one they get it set up for you.

Anyway, good luck everyone and as you look around remember that you shouldn't use life insurance as a savings/investment tool, it's a rip off when done that way.

When I get through the process I'll come back and post how things worked out.


Yes, it's a term policy with a highly rated insurance company. (Amica). I think I was ~27 when I got the policy.
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