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how much anesthesia and contract is too much??

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U B Tough
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2015
Posts : 1114
Posted 10/20/2019 9:36 AM (GMT -7)
Lucky me. I'm facing surgery # 13. Ive had 12 surgeries in 2.5 years for perianal abscessing. I've probably had 6-8 MRIs / CT's with contrast during that time as well. I had a horrible experience with the last contrast, vomiting and D for days.....

How much is too much? I've tried Dr. Google but haven't really had a definitive answer. Does having multiple surgeries increase the risk of dying on the table or suffering really bad side effects from the anesthesia?

Contrast may cause some sort of build up on the brain I'm reading.

Thanks all

Post Edited (U B Tough) : 10/20/2019 1:05:33 PM (GMT-6)

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MarkWithIBD
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2018
Posts : 442
Posted 10/20/2019 11:16 AM (GMT -7)
Have all those surgeries been for IBD? My heart goes out to you...

It's not that the risk of dying is greater, it's that the risk of complications is greater, particularly if the surgery is in the same region of the body (abdominal, chest, etc.) The reason is scar tissue. Surgery is traumatic injury and even if we heal really well from it, it causes permanent and disfiguring changes to the internal structure of the body. That's ok though because we usually accept those as a trade off for whatever disease we're dealing with! But it creates a burden on the body to have to re-heal that every time, with increasing scar tissue and physical changes that the body's functions have to adapt to.

about the MRI dye... yes, there has been huge controversy around it in the past year. In 2018 the FDA admitted that their original risk assessment of the dye was incomplete. Originally it was said that the people at risk for retaining dye in the body were people with kidney disease, but now it turns out that 100% of people who receive gadolinium dye retain part of it in the body. The target organs are the brain and the kidneys, but all organs are affected.

So the more dye you get, the more this toxic heavy metal accumulates. For years patients have been reporting long term changes to their bodies after MRIs, but doctors have not been believing them. Now that the FDA has blown the whistle, we are seeing far more reports. The main symptoms are neurological, like burning or numb limbs, cognitive function changes, etc.

Chuck Norris initiated a huge public awareness campaign after an MRI left his wife permanently disabled. It was partly his efforts that brought the truth to light.

You can refuse the dye, but you have to be extremely adamant about it. They may verbally agree to withhold dye, but then when you're in the MRI machine they will inject you anyway. On the consent form, you must cross out the part that talks about dye injection, and hand write "NO DYE INJECTED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES".

There are two classifications of gadolinium dye. One is called macrocyclic, the other is called linear. Even though both get retained in the body, apparently one is retained less than the other. You can read about the differences here:
https://mriquestions.com/so-many-gd-agents.html

So if you decide to go through with the dye, you could find out which brand they're using and request a different one.

An MRI can be conducted without dye, but you must be aware that this will compromise resolution. The image will not be as sharp. For macro assessments of the body, like looking at the big picture of what inflammation is doing, this is usually not a problem. The last two MRIs I had, I refused dye and the assessment turned out fine. The dye is needed for viewing extremely small detail, like say... measuring the width of an internal fistula tract, or looking for a small tumor. They can't see that without dye.

Normally in any MRI, they do one scan without dye, and then one scan with dye. Many hospitals do the dye scan because it makes them more $ to run a second scan, and also it gives the radiologist the option of accessing more detail if they want to. But often this is unnecessary. That's why I forego the dye.

There is currently no recognized way to chelate gadolinium out of the body. The Andrew Cutler crowd claim that their protocol can do it, and some naturopathic circles claim it is possible... but I'm not so sure.

Hope this helps.

Post Edited (MarkWithIBD) : 10/20/2019 12:19:52 PM (GMT-6)

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straydog
Forum Moderator
Joined : Feb 2003
Posts : 18246
Posted 10/20/2019 11:22 AM (GMT -7)
UB Tough, why would a dr tell a patient they will need surgery in 2.5 years, that's really odd. Anything can happen or change in that time frame.

MRI's have much less radiation exposure than a CT. I have a lot of metal that is not MRI compatible, therefore CT's only. Honestly, I don't worry about it. As far as contrast goes you need to remind the drs & techs that you had a reaction & you have the right to decline contrast.

I've also had many surgeries & not once has anyone ever told me because of my multiple surgeries that I am at a higher risk with anesthesia.

about Dr. Google, kick him to the curb. All that does is create anxiety, not to mention a lot of bad information on the internet.
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MarkWithIBD
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2018
Posts : 442
Posted 10/20/2019 11:24 AM (GMT -7)
Sorry, I meant to answer your question about anaesthesia.

That's the thing that is of more immediate risk. It's harmful to brain tissue and increases risk of stroke, but if you have a good anesthesiologist then they should be able to find a delicate balance between enough drug to keep you knocked out but not so much they're overdoing it.

In the past when I've had general anaesthesia, I usually have cognitive side effects for months after, especially in reaction time, memory, and decision making. Everything slows right down. But like I said above, we take the hit because the net benefit to our health is worth it.
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U B Tough
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2015
Posts : 1114
Posted 10/20/2019 12:04 PM (GMT -7)
Sorry Stray....I wasn’t clear. I’ve had 12 surgeries in 2.5 years. Now I need the 13th. I’m just days away from starting my first job in 7 yrs when this happened.

Mark- same area. Perianal abscess/fistulas. They don’t repair fistulas in Canada, just everywhere else so I’m stuck with this. Thank you. I’ll read & re-read so I can absorb what you’ve written.
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quincy
Elite Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 32478
Posted 10/20/2019 9:40 PM (GMT -7)
UB....did you check out Dr David J Hochman in Winnipeg? A friend of mine had multiple fistulas done by him. I can contact her and ask what was done if you like.

q
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U B Tough
Veteran Member
Joined : Aug 2015
Posts : 1114
Posted 10/20/2019 10:14 PM (GMT -7)
Thanks Q! That would be appreciated. Does your friend have CD?
We tried 2 surgeons in Calgary. They flat out refused because of Crohns. I got a quote from 2 hospitals in the States but it’s just not possible. It’s a simple straightforward fistula. At one point I had 3 types at the same time. Stelara has shrunk all but this very stubborn one. Otherwise, I’m happy to say bowel is great! From a disease perspective this is the time to do a repair.

Post Edited (U B Tough) : 10/20/2019 11:47:31 PM (GMT-6)

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DBwithUC
Veteran Member
Joined : Feb 2011
Posts : 4545
Posted 10/21/2019 9:42 AM (GMT -7)
I think the risk from anesthesia is additive not multiplicative. This mean if there is a .02 chance of complication each tiem and you go 3 time it is a total of .02+.02+.02=-.06 total, although the risk on the 3rd time remains .02. If it were some type of increased cumulative risk if might be .02+.03+.05.

I don't know enough about contrast, but if you need the diagnostic requiring contrast, I would imagine the risk of not having the diagnostic would be greater than any cumulative risk form having more diagnostics with contrast. If you went to ER with a broken leg, you would not say no x-ray because I've had too many xrays in past. The danger of not properly setting the bone with good visualization is greater than the risk of one more xray.

good luck
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quincy
Elite Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 32478
Posted 10/21/2019 10:14 AM (GMT -7)
UB....she has fistulising CD. I just texted her, but that doesn't mean she will get back to me immediately.

q
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quincy
Elite Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 32478
Posted 10/21/2019 11:30 AM (GMT -7)
UB....she will get back to me this evening or tomorrow.
I'll keep you updated.
q
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