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Posted 10/30/2020 3:50 AM (GMT -7)
Oral bacteria causing severe UC
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencealert.com/your-mouth-bacteria-might-be-behind-severe-forms-of-inflammatory-bowel-disease/amp
Posted 10/30/2020 6:02 AM (GMT -7)
You know, this would not surprise me. Very interesting.
Posted 10/30/2020 10:50 AM (GMT -7)
Made the link live...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencealert.com/your-mouth-bacteria-might-be-behind-severe-forms-of-inflammatory-bowel-disease/amp

One trigger of many to exacerbate once one has it is more believable. Doesn't explain why UC starts in the rectum and follows a specific pattern...
q
Posted 11/2/2020 4:34 PM (GMT -7)
I have put post on here years ago as to possibly why uc starts in the rectum.
If I remember correctly some of the reasons might be, lower blood flow in rectum, high bacterial
load in stool, this can lead to mucus eating or enzymes that degrade mucus due to bacteria. There must be other proposed reasons, but can't remember.
Anyway here is a new article on sugar and UC. But I and many others have tried a no sugar diet.
Little to no luck for me. But I do agree that mucus degrading enzymes are probably a problem.
I have another of my own theries,if bactera get out of control by the enteric immune system and are exposed
to the general immune system that is a problem. Many times the immune system never forgets, memory T cells.
So perhaps why UC is for many, never ending.
Oldmike
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-10-high-sugar-diet-gut-colitis.html

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/2/2020 7:04:11 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/9/2020 6:58 AM (GMT -7)
Just to fill in some of the above with older studies, of which I may have posted some years ago.
https://www.gutmicrobiotaforhealth.com/oral-bacteria-gut-might-able-trigger-bowel-diseases/

https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/lab-report/could-cure-for-ibd-be-inside-your-mouth

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc3925391/

There is more out there, just search mouth bacteria or oral bacteria and inflammatory bowel.

Now if this is a possible cause, oral health I think say from 1900 to say 1970 or so was much worse than today.
I don't recall reading that there was a extremely high incidence of IBD back then. Of course it was around, possibly not published, or people just did not talk about it. I do recall reading that the first identified cases were found around 1880-1900 in the UK, and the incidence went up from there. Of course there could have been a high prevelance but the Dr's back the did not know what they were looking at.
Another thought is that there were also no antibiotics to disrupt gut bacteria regardless of poor oral health,back then.
So it might be a combination of poor oral health and antibiotics,causing the problem.
So regardless of really bad oral health,without gut bacteria disruption the incidence might be low.

Odmike
Posted 11/9/2020 10:46 AM (GMT -7)
Great, something else which can be used to blame us for our disease.

I use antibacterial mouthwash and actually had the opposite worry - am i killing too many "good" bacteria in either my mouth or my gut (since it is inevitable that some mouthwash will be swallowed)?

I suspect my first flare was triggered by food poisoning, although I have a history of long term antibiotic use.
Posted 11/9/2020 11:02 AM (GMT -7)
Well here is one problem with mouthwash. We have nitrate reducing bacteria on the tongue and mouth.
We need these bacteria to reduce dietary nitrate to nitrite, which is then swallowed, hits the HCL
and turns into nitric oxide, which can regulate blood pressure. If interested look up entero nitrate, nitrite cycle.
I know chlorohexidine will kill them not sure about regular mouthwash.
Oldmike
Posted 11/9/2020 11:51 AM (GMT -7)
Ok the reason I am highly interested in this subject. My son the one who had his colon removed, just
started using Listerine last week. He gained 3 pounds. I started yesterday. Will see where this goes, if anywhere.
I use electric tooth brush and water pik, but at my age have receeding gums, and if I don't water pik they will bleed.
But he gained 3 pounds in less than a week. Interesting.
Oldmike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/9/2020 2:05:45 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/9/2020 3:12 PM (GMT -7)
I've just checked what antibiotics could possibly kill this bacterium and it seems that azithromycin and erythromycin could be effective:
"When clinically indicated, erythromycin remains the first choice for the treatment of intestinal campylobacteriosis caused by C. concisus and C. fetus".
Posted 11/9/2020 4:13 PM (GMT -7)
EWA: Long time no see. Anyhow, trying to kill oral bacteria with antibiotics, perhaps difficult, or just temporary.
I suspect periodontal pockets, as a potential problem. This may go nowhere but worth a shot. Nothing else
seems to work real well, except perhaps fecal transplants, and or heavy drugs. After looking at the medical literature for the past 40 years, I have just about given up. But, what the heck. Kill/partially control the mouth bacteria, and see what happens.
Let me put it a slightly different way. I have had UC longer than most GI doc's have been in practice, and have been studying the disease longer than they have. What this amounts to is,nobody knows what the hell is going on.
Oldmike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/9/2020 4:27:28 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/9/2020 4:29 PM (GMT -7)
Hi Mike smile I'm so happy Listerine works for your son. In Poland, dentists usually prescribe Eludril as the most potent anti-bacterial mouthwash, i don't know if it is in the USA but its effects are really spectacular. Also, my dentist says that hydrogen peroxide mixed with water is excellent as a mouthwash
Posted 11/9/2020 5:06 PM (GMT -7)
EWA: It has only been a week, we will see. He has trouble gaining weight, since no colon wich was taken
out in 2000 I think, been so long. Of course his immune system is still wacky, gets some extreme arthritic/immune attacks, and can't gain weight.
He was using peroxide but I told him it would be a gum
irritant, so he switched to Listerine.
Oldmike
Posted 11/9/2020 5:10 PM (GMT -7)
gargling with tea tree oil (very tiny amount) in warm water will also be antibacterial. The advantage is that it doesn't have all the unnatural and toxic ingredients in conventional mouthwash. When you do a simple google search here are the toxic ingredients in many mouthwashes out there. You also don't want to disturb the microbiome when you have UC in my opinion:

The ingredients in mouthwash that can be harmful in large amounts are:
Chlorhexidine gluconate.
Ethanol (ethyl alcohol)
Hydrogen peroxide.
Methyl salicylate.
Posted 11/10/2020 2:00 AM (GMT -7)
Interesting topic. I have several notes to it.

1. Why are immunosuppressants so effective in treating UC?
2. Why majority of people feel worse after course of antibiotics?

A. Cleaning teeth can change environment in mouth. It can kill good bacteria or support bad bacteria. Cleaning with tooth brush is not natural process.

B. Some people with UC (me) has problems with Salivary glands (Extra intestinal symptoms). Lack of saliva can change inner environment in mouth and kill good bacteria/support bad bacteria.

C. Lower incidence of UC among people who are using for example Listerine should be easily visible in some cohort study. As far as I know no cohort study has discovered this.
Posted 11/10/2020 4:14 AM (GMT -7)
My other thought is that in other parts of the world, there is high use of OTC antibiotics,
and that oral health is perhaps not that great. Yet, IBD is not rampant. So there is something
elese missing from the cause,if indeed oral heallth has anything to do with IBD.
Lets add to the confusion.
https://www.cghjournal.org/article/s1542-3565(16)31245-9/pdf

So here is one that is interesting
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2019.01403/full

Oldmike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/10/2020 12:36:25 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/10/2020 4:31 PM (GMT -7)
Mike, what is important is the positive tendency, the fact that he is able to gain weight suggests a definite progress - so I keep my fingers crossed that he fully recovers soon smile
Posted 11/11/2020 3:57 AM (GMT -7)
EWA: He had the colon out 20 years ago, has a J-pouch. Still has a crazy immune system, which attacks joints.
This produces lots of systemic inflammatory markers, like really high CRP and others,when
an attack is on going.
Thanks
Now back to Covid research.
Oldmike
Posted 11/12/2020 1:21 PM (GMT -7)
As a young military stud I could, and did, eat and drink anything, all without consequence.

Then in 1973 I drank a glass of yellowish water in a Rocky Point, Mexico hotel because, well, I was thirty, young, dumb and invincible. No bottled water back then. I should have stuck to tequila.

My gut, colon, and bowels have been paying for that glass of water(?) ever since.
Posted 11/12/2020 3:57 PM (GMT -7)
Garyi: In 1973 I was ETS for a year.
I will tell you what I think started mine.
Late 1971 had a good case of Korean craps, burning and spasms in the rectum. Felt something tare
and burn for about 3 days.,then it went away. Got home, Jan ETS 72, by about april had emergency abcess fistula surgery, the mess was bigger than a golf ball. Had varoius others since then, but I know how to kill them.
Anyway quit smoking 1977 UC ever since 1980.
Oldmike
A 1/15 FA Korea 1971 2nd ID

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 11/12/2020 4:00:24 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 11/12/2020 5:13 PM (GMT -7)
When a Dr. looks at your tongue, what is he seeing? Hes seeing if you are fostering fungal growth. If your tongue is overgrown your body could have made the decision, the adaptation, to foster fungal and bacterial growth. I'm about to post on this, because thats what is happening, and man am I having to fight it hard with super clean diet.

Look for my "Chris Jackson medical history" It ll have some good info for everyone to consider.

BTW everyone avoid that cdiffdiscuss.org site they are pill taking nutters becasue of the agenda over there. .
Posted 11/14/2020 11:58 AM (GMT -7)

Old Mike said...
Garyi: In 1973 I was ETS for a year.

That's a long time to be ETS.

We're hanging in there, Old Mike!!!

Gary
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