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OT Question about Covid vaccines

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Posted 12/2/2020 4:58 PM (GMT -7)
How do they know the vaccines work? Did they try to infect people? I ask because if people in the trials were still wearing masks, distancing etc how do they know that it was the vaccine that prevented infection instead of just what all of us are doing to prevent getting infected? I am not trashing the vaccine, I just want to know more about it. I really want a vaccine that works.

Hopefully this thread won't get the bickering the last one did smile
Posted 12/2/2020 6:19 PM (GMT -7)
I have been reading at the FDA's website about the Moderna vaccine, plenty of good & accurate info there. There is a lot info about the drs involved too. Keep in mind asking questions here about the vaccine you will get different opinions because of how the person interpreted what they read. An example, look at the differences of opinions on how to treat UC in this forum, lol. I think it was gary that gave some good info in the other thread, the trials are not over.

They can't give data on long term SE's it's a new drug. Moderna is a 2 injection drug, 2nd injection is given 28 days later. I believe I read from then on it will be like the flu shot, given yearly unless this gets changed. The vaccines do not contain the virus.

Fauci has spoken many times about with our advanced technology & knowledge of existing virus' this has been the reason they were able to come up with effective & safe vaccines.

They wear masks & social distance because they are in clinical settings in the trials, plus mandates by each city, it doesn't matter if they've had the vaccine or not. And no, people in the trials were not given the virus. Again, I urge you to do some reading at the FDA's website.

It's a personal choice for everyone. Myself, I will take it when available, I'm 67 yrs old, crohns, heart problems & chronic lung disease. The flu could take me out because of the lungs. Many people that has died had pre-existing conditions, blood clots & bacterial pneumonia, not good combinations. Even now if caught early enough, antibiotics, steroids & inhalers can help.
Posted 12/2/2020 6:39 PM (GMT -7)
I second what Susie is pointing out.

80%+ of the people who died from covid had pre-existing health issues and/or older age.

The vaccines in development are tested on 30,0000-60,000 people overtime, including older adults and people with medical issues. This is a huge scale and seems safer than any RCT! The mesalamine and/or biologic medication that you use is tested on maybe 150 people over 12 weeks.

You can look up the vaccine development process, but with an N of 30K-60K you get a ton of data overtime. For example, 30K may be in the placebo group and 30K in the vaccine group. They are matched in terms of behavior and background. They are watched over many months as they continue their normal behavior and even if 10% get infected with covid in the placebo group and only 5% in the vaccine group that is a high number to extrapolate from.
Posted 12/2/2020 8:20 PM (GMT -7)
Does it make sense to get tested for covid antibodies before you take the vaccine? If I've already been infected, I'd prefer not to get the shot.
Posted 12/3/2020 5:08 AM (GMT -7)
At this point all they are saying is several months, no definite number because everything is new. Some people have contracted it twice even though they say it's rare. You can ask your dr to test your antibodies to see what your levels are. Getting the shot is an elective choice.
Posted 12/3/2020 11:28 AM (GMT -7)
Thanks Susie.
Posted 12/3/2020 12:00 PM (GMT -7)
We are learning that having had covid doesn’t necessarily protect us from getting it again. My SIL works as a resident physician in a hospital in Georgia and she has now had Covid twice. Once in June and again in November. It could be that she is repeatedly exposed to high levels of the virus at work, but she is an otherwise healthy person (in her late 20’s) and was much worse the second time around.
Posted 12/3/2020 5:43 PM (GMT -7)
Thanks, Suzi -- I will check out the FDA

Jane -- that is a huge number of people in the vaccine trials! Surprising that meds can get approved after testing on just 150 people. Pretty scary actually.

I am sure I will get a vaccine when it's available. I am just curious how they know that it's the vaccine that is working rather than just doing all the safety practices that we are all doing. about 95% of the entire US population hasn't tested positive for it yet in the U.S.
Posted 12/3/2020 7:13 PM (GMT -7)
Thanks for the info everyone. Scary to think you can get Covid twice. There are different strains of the virus, so maybe that is why.
Posted 12/4/2020 1:10 AM (GMT -7)
CCinPA, they give half the volunteers placebo and half the vaccine. Then they compare the numbers who caught covid over several months. So e.g. maybe 90 people in the placebo group got covid and 5 in the vaccine group. Then you know the vaccine is pretty effective (at least over the time scale of the study. What's not clear yet is how long it protects you for)
Posted 12/4/2020 1:17 AM (GMT -7)
So in the above example, I think they would infer that the vaccine stopped 85/90 people in the vaccine group from getting covid, which is a 94% effectiveness.
Of course one can argue the numbers of infected people are small so there will be some error in the 94% figure but the difference between 5 people and 90 people is big enough to be more than just chance
Posted 12/4/2020 3:35 PM (GMT -7)
Keep an eye on COVID/vaccine news coming from NJ (USA) because the pandemic hit them hard last spring & is repeating since October now. They reportedly just got a 1st shipment of vaccine for widespread use. Their Governor is very outspoken when it comes to publicizing available data. / Old Hat
Posted 12/5/2020 4:09 AM (GMT -7)

Old Hat said...
Keep an eye on COVID/vaccine news coming from NJ (USA) because the pandemic hit them hard last spring & is repeating since October now. They reportedly just got a 1st shipment of vaccine for widespread use. Their Governor is very outspoken when it comes to publicizing available data. / Old Hat

NYC is getting a shipment too.
Posted 12/8/2020 6:49 PM (GMT -7)
Today the 1st Pfizer vaccine shot against COVID-19 was administered in England, to a 90 yr-old woman in Coventry. Health officials there said that the vaccine has to be shipped in sub-zero containers and used for injections within 5 days of shipment. The patients' 2nd required injection should be given 3 weeks later. Some reports state that the 2nd injection tends to induce more temporary reactions like fever & chills than the 1st. *** Well, we had to get 2 injections of the Salk polio vaccine during my childhood, and even a 3rd was recommended as a booster to be given the following year. / Old Hat
Posted 12/10/2020 10:29 AM (GMT -7)
I just had a doctor friend tell me that the vaccines don't necessarily prevent infection with Covid. The 95% rate was that they are effective in preventing serious infections -- they didn't track mild or asymptomatic infections in the trials.

We're all still going to have to wear masks, and keep distance after we get vaccinated for a long long time because we could easily be an asymptomatic carrier.

I am going to wait and see what happens. I want to be excited about a vaccine, but there's a lot that is unknown about the Covid vaccines and in my mind I am not convinced that they actually do much of anything. I guess we'll know once a lot more people are vaccinated and the hospitalizations decrease dramatically.

(posted in both vaccine threads since both are active)
Posted 12/11/2020 6:49 AM (GMT -7)
as others have said, my understanding of this is that they sent both control group and vaccinated group out to live their lives and are comparing infection, hospital and death rates.
There is ongoing recruitment for a potential "challenge trial" in the UK where some will be deliberately infected, I'm not sure if it has passed ethics board yet though https://ukcovidchallenge.com/covid-19-volunteer-trials/

For good explanation of the vaccines and other SARS cov-2 matters there are a couple of youtube channels I've followed that have clear explanations and no conspiracy stuff
Medcram - https://www.youtube.com/c/Medcram/about
John Campbell - https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching
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