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UC and scar tissue

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Ulcerative Colitis
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VanJordan
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 128
Posted 3/2/2021 1:05 PM (GMT -6)
Can someone with experience give me some factual info on UC scar tissue? In Crohn's, their scarring gets so bad that portions of the bowel become strictured. What is the real threat of UC scar tissue? Is it permanent? How does it affect stool transit time?

If UC only affects the innermost layer of the colon, then I don't understand how scarring is a big factor in our health. And yet I'm being told by professionals that many years worth of UC is going to create too much scar tissue, like this is a really detrimental thing. I don't get it?

Post Edited By Moderator (iPoop) : 3/7/2021 6:02:05 PM (GMT-7)

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quincy
Elite Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 32625
Posted 3/2/2021 1:24 PM (GMT -6)
If one develops scarring from continual inflammation, it means that the mucosal and submucosal layer and its cellular architectural structure is destroyed. It doesn't go back to normal from there. In turn, the proper function of what that area does is no longer working. That means little or no mucus for protection or flexibility of that area.Therefore...

How does this not make sense to you?

q
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3timechamp
Veteran Member
Joined : Oct 2009
Posts : 1668
Posted 3/2/2021 3:14 PM (GMT -6)
Reason I had surgery is 32 yrs of scaring took its toll. Last colonoscopy Dr said Colon was a horror show and I knew it probably was after numerous flares. Colon wasn't working well even while on Pred so I chose surgery route which has given me my freedom back. No more hostage to UC
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iPoop
Forum Moderator
Joined : Aug 2012
Posts : 16208
Posted 3/3/2021 7:00 AM (GMT -6)
UC large intestinal scars aren't as debilitating as in crohn's disease. UC has no strictures, no partial or complete blockages, and no resection surgeries necessary. I think it has more to do with the physical diameter of the small versus large intestine (UC can only affect large intestine).

UC scars typically affect our rectum or sigmoid colon. Normally our intestine is lumpy and bumpy (haustral folds). Scars thicken the walls, make those sections straight (total loss of haustral folds). In x-rays it looks just like a lead-pipe (known as "lead-pipe sign" in x-ray, there's plenty written about it and imagery to support it).

What's the impact? It affects our intestinal motility (movement). Thick walls impact the normal muscle movements that efficiently evacuate stool. We have partial motions (constipation) or spasming motions (diarrhea). It can impact how urgently and frequently we poop even during Remissions. It can leave IBS like symptoms within a remission. It still sucks but isn't severe enough to necessitate medical intervention.

Can it heal any? Maybe minimally over a long time in a remission. Generally, there's no treatment surgical or medicine. In severe cases, there's rectal-dilation devices of different diameters that can be medically prescribed to stretch the narrowed rectum and provide some symptomatic relief.
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3timechamp
Veteran Member
Joined : Oct 2009
Posts : 1668
Posted 3/3/2021 3:50 PM (GMT -6)
Both my Gastro and surgeon agreed that damaged was not good. And months on pred wasn't working. . I wasn't waiting months and months for some meds to MAYBE kick in. 32 yrs of UC was enough. So it was the right decision 3 yrs later. Peace to all
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VanJordan
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 128
Posted 3/5/2021 8:38 AM (GMT -6)
3timechamp, I don't know why you're coming here to talk about surgery? That has nothing to do with my question.

quincy, no need to be rude.

PP, thank you for your explanation, makes a lot of sense. How long does it take for the lead pipe phenomenon to happen in the average case?
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poopydoop
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2018
Posts : 985
Posted 3/5/2021 9:04 AM (GMT -6)
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

3TC was talking about his experiences with scarring which ultimately led to surgery. If not directly applicable to the OP it might be helpful for someone else.
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quincy
Elite Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 32625
Posted 3/5/2021 11:21 AM (GMT -6)
VJ...you don't believe the doctors about something serious that could easily be researched. Not rude...to the point, yes. I wanted to say W T F WAKE UP ALREADY, but that would have been down right rude.

q
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iPoop
Forum Moderator
Joined : Aug 2012
Posts : 16208
Posted 3/5/2021 11:40 AM (GMT -6)
Let's please be civil in this discussion.

"How long does it take for the lead pipe phenomenon to happen in the average case?".

The thing is, that it's not inevitable. If you're in a long term, sustained remission over many decades then your intestine likely is absent scars. I'm sure we have posters with UC for 30+ years and their intestine looks essentially normal.

Think of it similarly to a scar or a callus you'd get on your skin. Severe trauma can cause it, as can cumulative lesser damage over time. Multiple, extended hospitizations over very severe flares you might have some scars. If you're a mild case on mesalamines only then unlikely.
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quincy
Elite Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 32625
Posted 3/5/2021 11:58 AM (GMT -6)
My scopes are now normal...the meds I'm using continually have allowed that to happen. I never had scarring, but cellular structure and arcitecture was wonky and obviously not normal.

GI stated...doesn't mean stop med regimen, but some GIs might suggest that. Yikes.

q
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VanJordan
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 128
Posted 3/5/2021 7:30 PM (GMT -6)

quincy said...
VJ...you don't believe the doctors about something serious that could easily be researched. Not rude...to the point, yes. I wanted to say W T F WAKE UP ALREADY, but that would have been down right rude.

q

I am asking you nicely -- please stop posting in this thread. Your replies haven't been helpful, and have in fact been hurtful. Thank you.

iPoop said...
he thing is, that it's not inevitable. If you're in a long term, sustained remission over many decades then your intestine likely is absent scars. I'm sure we have posters with UC for 30+ years and their intestine looks essentially normal.

Think of it similarly to a scar or a callus you'd get on your skin. Severe trauma can cause it, as can cumulative lesser damage over time. Multiple, extended hospitizations over very severe flares you might have some scars. If you're a mild case on mesalamines only then unlikely.

Thanks. My UC has been more on the severe side, but each severe flare is short lived... so I dunno. My colon transit time is faster, even with my UC dying down now. It makes me wonder if that I have the lead pipe thing happening and that may be why I have over all faster transit time.

On the other hand, I had VERY severe flares three years in a row, but then 3 years of remission. Eventually in remission, my BM habits became normal... 1-2 times daily, and could eat almost anything. This was without meds, by the way. So I wonder if there are degrees of scarring that can heal with a longer term remission?
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damo123
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2007
Posts : 737
Posted 3/6/2021 1:43 PM (GMT -6)
I've had scarring which has healed to various degrees in my 8 year remission. It took awhile but absolutely it was the case that this scar tissue improved for me; these are the words of my GI. But of course the member who disrespected the initial poster's comment here will now soon be replying suggesting that both I and my GI are wrong and that we need to re-evaluate our opinion.

Also, I think some of the comments made to the initial poster on this thread are appalling. The question was asked in good faith by a member who was obviously distressed on the point made. We hear a lot about the need for social media companies to take online bullying seriously and that is a very good thing. Such should also be extended to the way people are treated and made to feel on forums more especially so those that are moderated. People's mental health is very important and no one should be belittled for asking a genuine question of concern.
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Charlie789
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2013
Posts : 27
Posted 3/6/2021 1:50 PM (GMT -6)
Hear hear.... I think more could be done by the moderators on this post...
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FlowersGal
Veteran Member
Joined : Feb 2017
Posts : 943
Posted 3/6/2021 10:48 PM (GMT -6)

damo123 said...


Also, I think some of the comments made to the initial poster on this thread are appalling. The question was asked in good faith by a member who was obviously distressed on the point made. We hear a lot about the need for social media companies to take online bullying seriously

Just feel the need to point out that it cuts both ways. The OP was initially rude to 3TC when 3TC posted about his surgery because of scarring — which was an answer to the OPs question about scarring. Most people (myself included) are terrified of surgery and it’s helpful to hear that it can be successful and lead to a good life.
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poopydoop
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2018
Posts : 985
Posted 3/7/2021 12:48 AM (GMT -6)

FlowersGal said...


Just feel the need to point out that it cuts both ways. The OP was initially rude to 3TC when 3TC posted about his surgery because of scarring — which was an answer to the OPs question about scarring. Most people (myself included) are terrified of surgery and it’s helpful to hear that it can be successful and lead to a good life.


Yes thank you, that's what i meant about pots and kettles but maybe you don't use that expression in the US.
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damo123
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2007
Posts : 737
Posted 3/7/2021 3:27 AM (GMT -6)
Equally feel the need to again emphasize that was not my point. I'm not here to refer or defend either side. There is a list of forum rules that must be respected and they have not been respected in this post. It's all too easy to make excuses,,,'he said that...she said that..im right...they are wrong'...and not hold ourselves account to the standards and and respect that others deserve.

FlowersGal said...

damo123 said...


Also, I think some of the comments made to the initial poster on this thread are appalling. The question was asked in good faith by a member who was obviously distressed on the point made. We hear a lot about the need for social media companies to take online bullying seriously

Just feel the need to point out that it cuts both ways. The OP was initially rude to 3TC when 3TC posted about his surgery because of scarring — which was an answer to the OPs question about scarring. Most people (myself included) are terrified of surgery and it’s helpful to hear that it can be successful and lead to a good life.

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steve_rd
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2010
Posts : 35
Posted 3/7/2021 3:46 AM (GMT -6)
I tend to agree with damo here Flower..... I don't think he was making an issue about the specifics of the post. I used to post on here years ago..... I still read but I do not post because if you say something that disagrees with the senior members you totally get vilified and you get the reaction like in this post.

There was a time when HW was well moderated and this kinda thing would get pulled up. But that is not the case anymore, maybe cos there is not as many moderators. ....And therefore you get the kinda comments like we see here. It's sad because it keeps people from posting their real concerns.

Saddens me to say but this is reflection of where HW is currently at IMO
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ambling
Veteran Member
Joined : Feb 2011
Posts : 1046
Posted 3/7/2021 5:04 AM (GMT -6)
It's a bit odd when people complain about others saying mean things, and then bash both the moderators and the forum 😳😁
It's a great forum and the mods do a great job. Ipoop in particular goes out of his way to give thorough, well considered responses.
Looks like some mild over reactions, and perhaps misunderstandings.
All good people here.

Scar tissue that is deep and thick is very hard to heal completely. If your body tends to heal quickly, ironically that can make repeated cycles of damage and repair result in worse scarring 😩.

Fortunately the large bowel can take a considerable beating before having irreconcilable problems.

Post Edited (ambling) : 3/7/2021 4:07:35 AM (GMT-7)

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steve_rd
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2010
Posts : 35
Posted 3/7/2021 5:16 AM (GMT -6)
I don't think anyone has been bashed here. I think the comments made towards the moderators have been made civilly and with respect and out of genuine concern. For those of us who have made such comments we have not used bad language, we have not used phrases to incite tit for tats name calling and we have not tried to impose our will on others.
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damo123
Veteran Member
Joined : Jul 2007
Posts : 737
Posted 3/7/2021 5:22 AM (GMT -6)
Posting HealingWell's own rules on this matter as below. My point is simply that these have not been adhered to here. My concern now is that this is an ongoing issue with the forum. Like the previous poster this is one of the reasons I do not use HealingWell much anymore. And that is sad.

2. No use of explicit, racist, obscene or vulgar language, images or messages.

3. No posts that attack, insult, flame, defame, or abuse others. Respect other members' opinions regarding treatment decisions. Decisions about health and well-being are highly personal choices. We should respect all points of view. Flaming will not be tolerated.
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ambling
Veteran Member
Joined : Feb 2011
Posts : 1046
Posted 3/7/2021 5:40 AM (GMT -6)
Real helpful 😏
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Charlie789
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2013
Posts : 27
Posted 3/7/2021 6:18 AM (GMT -6)
I think it actually is ambling. Because I do think ppl forget these rules....on a forum its easy to lambast a person and then hide behind your server.

I don't think anyone is giving out to the moderators at least not in a disrespectful way that you are insinuating but a point has clearly being highlighted here and I for one hope that the issue raised might make us all more aware of being more respectful to each other on this forum.
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ambling
Veteran Member
Joined : Feb 2011
Posts : 1046
Posted 3/7/2021 6:32 AM (GMT -6)
Perhaps you could get back on topic? That might be helpful.
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Charlie789
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2013
Posts : 27
Posted 3/7/2021 6:38 AM (GMT -6)
Oh I think we are absolutely dealing with the topics at hand....
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ambling
Veteran Member
Joined : Feb 2011
Posts : 1046
Posted 3/7/2021 6:43 AM (GMT -6)
Perhaps start your own thread, rather than hijacking van jordans.
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