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Another diet study for what it's worth

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Ulcerative Colitis
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Old Mike
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Posts : 4024
Posted 4/14/2021 11:30 AM (GMT -6)
FYI.
Oldmike
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-04-diet-rich-animal-foods-alcohol.html
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LeafsFan
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Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 333
Posted 4/14/2021 1:06 PM (GMT -6)
Excellent study. I have been following several accounts of people healing and diets contributing to anti-inflammation as I'm desparate to get out of this flare and also research till my eyes bleed.
It seems there is more and more evidence suggesting predominently plant based is the way to go.
This isn't to say it will get us all out of flares, but combined with medical treatement, could definitely extend remission.
We've linked it to the westernized diet for years, and what is missing in the western diet?? Fiber.
Scary as it is.
Slowly...very slowly, needs to be re-introduced.
I'm not a huge social media person, but instagram has a ton of Gastroenterologists on there (new generation of doctors is much more modern) and you won't find many promoting meat. They seem to believe diet is part of the treatment, which is nice to see it's finally gaining recognition.

Thanks for sharing Old MIke.
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Old Mike
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Joined : Jan 2007
Posts : 4024
Posted 4/14/2021 2:57 PM (GMT -6)
Leafs: Good luck, been trying to fix myself since 1980,when I was 32. Been researchng since then. Pretty much gave up, but post things new that I find onto this site. Oldest son lost colon J-pouch 2000 doing ok, second son worst scope pics I ever saw. But sitting here in front of me eating like a pig, no meds. Go figure.
Oldmike

Post Edited (Old Mike) : 4/16/2021 6:47:55 AM (GMT-6)

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LeafsFan
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Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 333
Posted 4/14/2021 6:08 PM (GMT -6)
Just goes to show how unpredictable this really is. Wish you and your sons health.
Keep posting your findings. It's always changing. I hope one day to read big news discovery while I still have my colon.
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VanJordan
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Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 428
Posted 4/14/2021 7:57 PM (GMT -6)
I always turn my UC around using this method:

No animal products for 1 month (no meat, dairy, butter, etc.)
No gluten
Pureed vegetable based diet, with high polyphenol foods (lots of colours) especially bright red and blue foods (blueberries, etc)
2000mg phytosomal curcumin 2x daily
1000mg boswellia extract 2x daily
Partially hydrogenated guar gum (PHGG) 5 grams in water once daily
Slow release butyrate supplement twice daily
L. plantarum 299v once daily

At week 3 I introduce 1% goat milk kefir. The 1% is important because animal fat feeds bilophila which is a bile eating bacterial species in the bowel. Avoiding animal products starves the proteobacteria, which all have high levels of lipopolysaccharide in their cell wall. When they die, the LPS is released and damages the colon wall. They also feed on animal protein, including the blood and mucous of ulcers.

If I reintroduce animal products and start flaring again, I know that the bad bacteria are still out of control and I refrain for longer.
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Oligodar
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Posted 4/15/2021 7:30 AM (GMT -6)
In this study they came to a similar conclusion:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmc2877178/
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LeafsFan
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Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 333
Posted 4/15/2021 9:11 AM (GMT -6)
Another interesting Study Oligodar.

VanJordan, I just screenshotted your post. I was reading a bit about that the other day. I'm really happy that studies into diet are finally being done, and shared on places like this forum. A huge change from "diet has no effect".
I would never suggest diet as a cure, but complimentary to treatment, I have to (want to) believe it would be beneficial.
Can I ask - you say "Avoiding animal products starves the proteobacteria, which all have high levels of lipopolysaccharide in their cell wall. When they die, the LPS is released and damages the colon wall." I'm just wondering then, do we want these bacteria to die? Or if they die, is what they release damaging to us.

We are just scratching the surface, but if we don't keep trying, we'll never know and it'll be the next generation reaping the benefits. Why not us?
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VanJordan
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Posts : 428
Posted 4/16/2021 10:18 AM (GMT -6)

LeafsFan said...
Another interesting Study Oligodar.

VanJordan, I just screenshotted your post. I was reading a bit about that the other day. I'm really happy that studies into diet are finally being done, and shared on places like this forum. A huge change from "diet has no effect".
I would never suggest diet as a cure, but complimentary to treatment, I have to (want to) believe it would be beneficial.
Can I ask - you say "Avoiding animal products starves the proteobacteria, which all have high levels of lipopolysaccharide in their cell wall. When they die, the LPS is released and damages the colon wall." I'm just wondering then, do we want these bacteria to die? Or if they die, is what they release damaging to us.

We are just scratching the surface, but if we don't keep trying, we'll never know and it'll be the next generation reaping the benefits. Why not us?

To answer your question about LPS bacteria. We will always have them in our gut. E. coli are natural inhabitants. The key is their numbers. If their numbers are high then more of them are dying on a regular basis, releasing more LPS, and doing more damage. They also feed on protein, specifically animal protein because it's high in the sulfur based amino acids cysteine and methionine. As their LPS damages the gut wall, leaky gut begins, and then the immune system starts migrating into the colon wall and causes inflammation. If the proteobacteria are overpopulated, they must absolutely be scaled back, but the protocol for doing it must be gradual. If you nuke the bowel with antibiotics, the colonic inflammation explodes because of all the LPS release. This is why antibiotics are so bad for most people with UC. They already have dysbiosis and too much proteobacteria. Then you nuke the biome with an antibiotic, all the LPS is released, the bowel wall gets more leaky, and all the good bacteria are now dead so the proteobacteria can freely populate even worse than before.

Diet is a big part of the picture, but until the gut mapping technologies recently got really good, nobody knew what they were targeting with diet. Different diets (SCD, GAPS, etc.) work differently for different people because we all have different ratios of microbial communities. Some of us have overgrowths, or undergrowths; some of us have species that are totally extinct for various reasons (like antibiotics). Until a person knows their bacterial community with precision, it's impossible to know the right things to do. You can chase your tail for years not knowing. However, one feature is universal to UC patients: we all have high proteobacteria numbers. It's because when we start bleeding, the proteobacteria feed on the blood, and multiply. Then they release more LPS and it causes more inflammation.

Diet isn't the whole picture though. Some of the dysbiosis will not change from food modification. You need targeted antimicrobials to kill off certain populations because they won't die back on their own -- they are very resilient. Other species need to be fed with prebiotic foods so that they grow and take up all the real estate, so that the pathobionts and dysbiotic bacteria can't grow in their place. Modern medicine will never look at this because the main method for scaling back these bacteria is herbal. You can literally choose one herb that only targets one bacteria. Antibiotics can't do that. Modern medicine hates herbal medicine, so unless they develop some kind of amazing genetic technology, or start using bacteriophages, they will never be able to customize a gut treatment protocol for people based on their biome mapping.

We are just scratching the surface, but honestly the majority of this work is not being done by mainstream modern medicine. It's being done by independent GI doctors and researchers, microbiologists and geneticists, and the alternative health sector. Mainstream modern medicine is still pushing the auto-immune angle and immune suppression -- they will never cure us because their model is too profitable. They come out with a new, slightly different biologic every 2-5 years, just in time for patients whose biologic options are wearing off. I know people whose insurance pays out over $100K per year for their biologic treatment. Big pharma is not going to stop that pathway, and big pharma owns modern medicine, so modern medicine will keep "treating" UC this way.

I gave up on modern medicine a long time ago. I'd maybe turn to them if I was dying, but that's it. Their way of seeing the body makes no sense and they are dismissive of all the new emerging research coming out around the world. Specifically, Australia and NZ are pretty ahead of the game on this one. Big pharma is just too powerful in North America and Europe. There is so much political interference blocking new innovations and experiments. The most promising thing in Europe right now is the Crohn's MAP vaccine. They are entering phase II trials now I believe, all through independent funding. No pharma institution would fund them, probably because if the MAP vaccine works it will cure people.

IBD rates are skyrocketing around the world. It gets worse each year. This is not "auto-immune" and it's not genetics. Something is seriously wrong in our environment and it's reflected in our gut biome community.

By the way, everything I've said in this post is based on empirical research. If you google UC and proteobacteria or LPS you will find lots of data.

Post Edited (VanJordan) : 4/16/2021 10:22:12 AM (GMT-6)

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LeafsFan
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Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 333
Posted 4/16/2021 1:36 PM (GMT -6)
Though I don't know the specifics on which bacteria to target or attempt to re-populate, I tend to agree on the take that this is not auto-immune, but a massive imbalance created by our environments. The data is too obvious that as countries become industrialized, these conditions skyrocket.
The first thing we can control is diet, so it's a good place to start. I believe our bodies are trying to heal.
It's frustrating to think that answers could be within reach but the focus is elsewhere. We have to hope in one of these countries, they find something and it becomes public knowledge.
Although I take these medicines (I do need them as my flares come fast and hard), I continue to research and with this most recent flare have found how much new information is available since my last one.
It's nice to see if finally making it to these discussions so we can share and the more people aware, the more pressure to change the focus of the research.
We have to take control of the things we can.
Some interesting approaches out there. If any of you have not looked into any of this, a couple of approaches that seem to have some credibility and are accessible are Kenny Honnas (find him on youtube), High Carb Health from NZ (find them on Instagram, a bit on youtube), some other great accounts on Instagram/Youtube as well. Combine google and it's a rabbit hole once you start.
Can't say what they did will work for everyone, but it's 90% diet related in their stories.
We've been told it's not for so long we believe it.

Post Edited (LeafsFan) : 4/16/2021 1:39:26 PM (GMT-6)

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VanJordan
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 428
Posted 4/16/2021 3:37 PM (GMT -6)
For myself, I am starting to experiment with bacteriophages. They are still tightly controlled in North America, but they were used before antibiotics were invented. The only phages you can get in North America are the same 4 species, and they all target e. coli only. Phages are super specific, there's one type of phage for every type of bacteria. Russia and Georgia have huge bacteriophage banks. I have spent a good chunk of money to get a custom phage formula sent to me. Assuming customs doesn't nab it, it seems promising. The phages will wipe out the species in my bowel that are harming me while leaving all the others in tact.

They are just starting phage trials in the U.S., but it's going to take years, and their end product will probably be super expensive because that's just how big pharma is. In Russia and Georgia, phages are over the counter. If you have food poisoning you just go buy a vial and drink it. In my case, I worked with a clinic there who put together a phage cocktail based on my microbiome assay.
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LeafsFan
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 333
Posted 4/16/2021 5:51 PM (GMT -6)
VanJordan, that's really cool. Very interested to see how that works.
I am going to need to read more about that. Keep us posted and thank you for sharing
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Lka58
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2018
Posts : 53
Posted 4/16/2021 6:03 PM (GMT -6)
Interesting!
I follow this thread and find lots of good information. Especially interested in gut mapping and ways to improve gut flora.

I am originally from Russia, still have good friends there who could send me herbs and medicine. Never heard of over the counter vials you are describing...
Could you give more information about the clinic you are working with. If it could help me I might even go there.
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VanJordan
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Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 428
Posted 4/16/2021 6:55 PM (GMT -6)
The clinic is called Eliava, and they are in Tiblisi, Georgia. If you want more info, you can email them at info@eptc.ge. I have met UC patients who actually flew to Tiblisi to get treatment on site, but it's possible to do it all remotely. You have to get your gut microbiome tested first before they will prescribe phages, and it's expensive (approx 1900-2100 Euros).

However, there are two phage products that are over the counter in Russia and Georgia. One is called Intesti-Bacteriophage and one is called Pyobacteriophage. Together, they cover all of the standard pathogenic bacteria that tend to infect people. I can't advise on where to buy them, maybe google will help you, or maybe you can ask someone in those countries to look in the local pharmacies. That's what I did.

The OTC products will likely not cover everything you need. Eliava is expensive but they have every phage you'll need for your specific situation. So it's worth the cost, if you can afford it.

The problem is shipping. Customs in North American and European countries will seize them and you'll never see them. It's because they are viruses, but they are viruses that infect bacteria, not humans. But because they come in vials that you need a needle to get out of, they look really medical, and customs doesn't like that. However, it's the only way to store and transport them without contaminating the phage solution. Also, frankly, they want to stop phage treatment from happening in Europe and North America until big pharma can profit off of it. But Russia and Georgia are not part of the western pharmaceutical complex as hardcore, so that's why they have OTC phages. They never stopped using phages when antibiotics came around. In fact, it's now known that phages enhance antibiotics. When bacteria alter their genomes to try and defend against phages, their antibiotic resistance disappears. So using both is actually advantageous.

You may end up paying all that money to get phages shipped only to have them seized. However, Eliava claims this rarely happens, and I believe them. They've been doing this for a long time.

Anyway, I hope that helps.

Post Edited (VanJordan) : 4/16/2021 6:59:07 PM (GMT-6)

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quincy
Elite Member
Joined : May 2003
Posts : 33246
Posted 4/16/2021 9:57 PM (GMT -6)
Van Jordan...are you still bed-ridden because of flare?

q
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TroubledTurds
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Posts : 8705
Posted 4/17/2021 3:17 PM (GMT -6)
smile


TT
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ewafromwarsaw
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Posts : 1423
Posted 4/20/2021 6:24 PM (GMT -6)
but don't you think that there's a risk of phages proliferating in your organism without limits? I think I'd be extremely afraid of such experiments
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VanJordan
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Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 428
Posted 4/22/2021 4:58 AM (GMT -6)

ewafromwarsaw said...
but don't you think that there's a risk of phages proliferating in your organism without limits? I think I'd be extremely afraid of such experiments

No. All the studies show that stool is completely absent of the relevant phages after treatment course is complete. The phages only proliferate so long as their target bacteria is susceptible. If the bacteria are all killed or they develop resistance, the phages can't reproduce and they disappear.

Bacteriophages can never infect humans. It's not possible.
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brucen36
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Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 331
Posted 4/22/2021 7:30 AM (GMT -6)

Lka58 said...
Interesting!

I am originally from Russia, still have good friends there who could send me herbs and medicine. Never heard of over the counter vials you are describing...
Could you give more information about the clinic you are working with. If it could help me I might even go there.

How will you get them to send medicine by mail from Russia and getting it past customs?
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Lka58
Regular Member
Joined : Nov 2018
Posts : 53
Posted 4/22/2021 10:54 AM (GMT -6)
I left Russia when it was one big Soviet Union, so I have friends in former republics (now countries). I was getting some supplements by mail from Latvia (another former republic) with no problem.

Few years ago when I was actively searching for treatments I went to Russia. Brought around $800 worth peptides from reputable source in Saint Petersburg that came with a protocol... didn’t make things worse but didn’t help. Also came across stem cell therapy clinic claiming treatment from various diseases including colitis, that turned out total fraud.

I don’t want to sound sceptical but I do have some concerns... yes, no “big Phama” there, doctors are more open to herbs, etc in addition to meds, but treatment protocols for IBD there basically the same as here.
From what I know my concern is sometimes they will claim anything for money. Especially big money. Don’t forget these are poor countries... average person makes around $200 a month.

However, it’s worth checking out. I think the best would be to talk to some people who got their treatment and see what they say.
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VanJordan
Regular Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 428
Posted 4/24/2021 4:27 PM (GMT -6)

Lka58 said...
I left Russia when it was one big Soviet Union, so I have friends in former republics (now countries). I was getting some supplements by mail from Latvia (another former republic) with no problem.

Few years ago when I was actively searching for treatments I went to Russia. Brought around $800 worth peptides from reputable source in Saint Petersburg that came with a protocol... didn’t make things worse but didn’t help. Also came across stem cell therapy clinic claiming treatment from various diseases including colitis, that turned out total fraud.

I don’t want to sound sceptical but I do have some concerns... yes, no “big Phama” there, doctors are more open to herbs, etc in addition to meds, but treatment protocols for IBD there basically the same as here.
From what I know my concern is sometimes they will claim anything for money. Especially big money. Don’t forget these are poor countries... average person makes around $200 a month.

However, it’s worth checking out. I think the best would be to talk to some people who got their treatment and see what they say.

Eliava is legit. There is a big bacteriophage support community online with hundreds of people who have used their services successfully. I can't vouch for other clinics but Eliava is real and effective.
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brucen36
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Joined : Mar 2014
Posts : 331
Posted 4/24/2021 6:29 PM (GMT -6)
https://ibdnewstoday.com/2021/02/08/biomxs-ibd-phage-therapy-bx002-shows-promise-first-in-human-clinical-trial/
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