Van Jordan

VanJordan said...
What is the scientific basis of your opening thesis in this post? When ischemia, infection, rare genetic disorders and acute injury are ruled out - as these account for a minority of UC cases - then the rest of the cases are always classified as idiopathic, meaning we don't know the cause.

When ischemia, infection, rare genetic disorders, or acute injury are the cause of a person's colitis, then by definition that person does NOT have Ulcerative colitis. They have ischemic colitis, infectious colitis, radiation-induced colitis, etc, but not ulcerative colitis. So, no, those don't account for a minority of UC cases. They are simply not UC.

beave said...
When ischemia, infection, rare genetic disorders, or acute injury are the cause of a person's colitis, then by definition that person does NOT have Ulcerative colitis. They have ischemic colitis, infectious colitis, radiation-induced colitis, etc, but not ulcerative colitis. So, no, those don't account for a minority of UC cases. They are simply not UC.

It's not that cut and dry, just like it's sometimes not cut and dry to define UC vs Crohn's in some people. For example, there are UC patients who have undiagnosed parasites whose UC resolves after the parasite is gone. They got a UC diagnosis (scope, biopsy, histology, etc.) and put on meds. They discovered on their own that they had an offensive organism in their gut and when they eliminated it their UC vanished. Did they have UC or was it just infectious colitis? if you read through their medical file it wouldn't be so neat and tidy as you're making it seem.

Ischemia is another one. Sometimes there is subclinical ischemia that manifests as ulcerative colitis. It's not blatant ischemia like from the textbooks wherein if the person doesn't get blood supply restored within the next few hours their colon will die. They get a UC diagnosis and then maybe later they discover that they have factor V laden and their blood clots way too easily, leading to blood supply issues. They take blood thinners (herbal or pharmaceutical) and their UC improves.

The point is... these other causes of inflammatory bowel are a minority. Most UC gets the "idiopathic" moniker, with some vague "auto-immune" reference that is not truly based in hard science.

VanJordan said...
I remind everyone again -- please keep conversation about personal conventional medicine protocols out of this thread. There are hundreds of other discussions about that. We are not here to debate modern medicine's efficacy. My post above about how it didn't work for me was about my case only. I am not telling other people what to do with their treatment plans, but this thread is not for tweaking conventional medical protocols that people are using. Please cease debates about this, I am not interested.

First of all, you are not the owner of Healingwell and therefore you don't get to dictate what people can or can't post in a particular thread. If you post in a public forum, people will have different viewpoints and people will question and debate.

Somebody said...
I am like the canary in the mine. I have tried EVERYTHING under the sun since 2015 to stop my flares.

Secondly, you did not try EVERYTHING. You did not try JAK-inhibitors or S1P-modulators and I'm assuming you probably didn't try stelara because it was licensed for UC only after you stopped trying biologics. That is entirely your prerogative and I can understand after failing a long list of drugs you can be weary and cynical and search for alternatives. But don't claim you've tried everything when you haven't.

Somebody said...
This is not a quack theory, it's cellular biology and redox medicine, something that is a relatively new field and is why most GI doctors have no clue about it.

The fact that oxidative stress contributes to disease has been known for decades and is not a new field. A five second google of "oxidative stress ulcerative colitis" will bring back a ton of publications that are not related to Pravda. Here is one example:
Title: Oxidative Stress and Redox-Modulating Therapeutics in Inflammatory Bowel Disease
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/s147149142030157x

Look, I get that you found a protocal that worked for you, and you're excited about it and want to share it with the wider community so that you can help other people. I get that. I have also been a hair's breadth away from surgery until I found a treatment that worked at the 11th hour. I also like to share my story. But making sweeping statements about how "conventional" medicine works and the knowledge of the GI community just undermines your credibility. It's an exaggeration or distortion of the truth and is not necessary for making your point.

Somebody said...
I know that the European market is very pro-pharmaceutical and they restrict alternative medicine

How do you know this? Europe is made up of many countries, each with their own healthcare systems and protocols. I saw an Ayurvedic doctor while trying alternatives to treat my UC and the consultation costs were covered by my health insurance. The point is, if you post something like this which I know not to be true (or an exaggeraton of the truth), it makes me doubt the rest of what you're saying.

Somebody said...
And what I can say with total confidence about this method, is that I'm not even worried my UC will come back.

I genuinely hope you're right about this and wish you many years of continued good health. But the fact is you've been in remission for about 6 months, you are a sample of size n=1, and I don't see how you can possibly know what your body is going to do in a few (or many) years from now.

VanJordan said...
I remind everyone again -- please keep conversation about personal conventional medicine protocols out of this thread.

It's not very scientific to want to limit discussion of current treatments to only what you want to talk about. I hope that Pravda wasn't that close minded when he discovered his theory.

Several years ago I didn't want to start biologics. Mesalamine (oral & rectal) wasn't enough to keep me in remission. I tried different things that didn't work and came across a post here about homemade nopal water, did research about what it was and tried it. It worked for me for over a year. I started a new job and had to travel a lot so I stopped drinking it, started flaring within a couple months and nopal water didn't work for me anymore when I started drinking it again so I started Entyvio. When I was drinking the nopal water, I shared my experience here, was met with a lot of skepticism, but never thought it was the answer for anyone else (and I don't remember that anyone else had the success I did with it -- there were a couple posters who said it worked for them but since they never seemed to post on any other thread I think they were fake accounts of people playing weird head games).

My point is, everyone needs to be opened minded and truthful when discussing treatments. Alternatives may work for some people. But if it doesn't that doesn't mean they are failures as people or that they are selling out to pharmaceuticals. UC is a very individual disease and we all need to find our own paths to wellness.

I would lay off the European side of things Van jordan. That is ill advised. European medical research and European healthcare systems are many folds better than those of North America. You will do yourself no service trying to grapple an argument along this line of reasoning.

I greatly appreciate Van Jordan’s research, ideas etc. I think as adults we can decide for ourselves if it has value for our situations. The thread is called Van Jordan isn’t it….. take it or leave it…people! I felt defensive for asking a question on the supplements! Should never feel that way over a question!

I totally agree cooper360. I am also interested in what Van Jordan has to say about the Pravda theory, and waiting for Dr. Pravda to publish his next paper. It looks like this thread is wandering too far from what it was started for even though everyone has a right to put in their two cents worth. Time to start a new thread Van Jordan! This one is getting too polluted.

likewise

This thread has been very useful to me and I too would like to thank VanJordan for the insights.

The key is trying to understand mechanisms to achieve a stable remission/possible cure. It is only by sharing information that answers will come – the medical/pharmaceutical industry is economically designed around chronic illness.

I have chosen therapies based on the best available science on those interventions with a good safety profile.
The current protocol uses VSL#3, Saccharomyces boulardii, Hyaluronic acid/herbal suppository, Curcumin, Grapeseed, Resveratrol, Ubiquinol, Palmitoylethanolamide, Zinc complex, B complex, Selenium, Rutin, Bromelain, Milk thistle, Oregano oil and Andrographis.
Diet is low inflammatory/Fodmap which includes ~ 400ml Bilberry juice daily.
Also use Flax oil, EPA, Psyllium husk and a homemade olive leaf extract/ propolis infusion.

Some of these were chosen based on their effect on cytokines and inflammation but I learned from this thread that they are also antioxidant. Others are based on their anti/probiotic effects. I think antioxidants help control symptoms but the holy grail is to restore the microbiome
I think the dose of VSL#3 is important – the small clinical trial showing efficacy in UC used 4 sachets or 1800 billion cfu twice a day for adults, less for children.

I will be adding Sulforaphane. Apart from its antioxidant properties it has been shown to have a positive effect on gut flora which may be part of its effectiveness.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mnfr.201800427

Post Edited (waxmoth) : 8/12/2022 11:42:20 AM (GMT-7)

Wow. That's not inflammatory at all. Sigh. I may not be rushing out to try all the suggestions in this thread, but I find it very intriguing so I have been following the discussion. I don't see the benefit in writing insults about it. If you are not convinced it is the "cure", then don't try it. Time will tell how it all pans out.

cooper360 said...
I greatly appreciate Van Jordan’s research, ideas etc. I think as adults we can decide for ourselves if it has value for our situations. The thread is called Van Jordan isn’t it….. take it or leave it…people! I felt defensive for asking a question on the supplements! Should never feel that way over a question!

Firstly I'm not convinced everyone on this thread is an adult. Moreover, there's a reason why most of us defer to doctors/specialists for our treatment - because we do not have the knowledge or insight to know which treatment is appropriate or safe for our circumstances. True not all doctors are equal, pharmaceutical industry has some flaws.. That said, the resulting treatments have gone through large trials to establish safety and efficacy, if I take such a treatment I have an idea what I am signing up for. You want to take supplements recommended by a stranger off the internet, your choice. Many supplements are harmless, some are not, and some can interact with other medications (grapefruit juice and ashwaghanda are a couple of examples mentioned on this thread). If you don't discuss with your doctor there is a risk of harm.
Note that I'm not saying I think pravda is right or wrong - I think he is not the revolutionary that he claims to be, and making bold claims like finding a universal cure for UC is always going to be met with scepticism. Research into antioxidants and redox therapy is being done by mainstream researchers.. Why is it that none of them cite Pravda? Why is it that Pravda doesn't work at an institution? These are simple questions and nothing wrong with some critical thinking when someone makes a very bold claim re curing a disease.

waxmoth said...
This thread has been very useful to me and I too would like to thank VanJordan for the insights.

The key is trying to understand mechanisms to achieve a stable remission/possible cure. It is only by sharing information that answers will come – the medical/pharmaceutical industry is economically designed around chronic illness.

I have chosen therapies based on the best available science on those interventions with a good safety profile.
The current protocol uses VSL#3, Saccharomyces boulardii, Hyaluronic acid/herbal suppository, Curcumin, Grapeseed, Resveratrol, Ubiquinol, Palmitoylethanolamide, Zinc complex, B complex, Selenium, Rutin, Bromelain, Milk thistle, Oregano oil and Andrographis.
Diet is low inflammatory/Fodmap which includes ~ 400ml Bilberry juice daily.
Also use Flax oil, EPA, Psyllium husk and a homemade olive leaf extract/ propolis infusion.

Some of these were chosen based on their effect on cytokines and inflammation but I learned from this thread that they are also antioxidant. Others are based on their anti/probiotic effects. I think antioxidants help control symptoms but the holy grail is to restore the microbiome
I think the dose of VSL#3 is important – the small clinical trial showing efficacy in UC used 4 sachets or 1800 billion cfu twice a day for adults, less for children.

I will be adding Sulforaphane. Apart from its antioxidant properties it has been shown to have a positive effect on gut flora which may be part of its effectiveness.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mnfr.201800427

It's interesting that you mention that many anti-inflammatories are also antioxidants. Yes, this is true. Some conventional meds have mild activity against hydrogen peroxide. Rectal 5-ASAs are an example of that. They provide topical relief against hydrogen peroxide because they are anti-inflammatory acids. Unfortunately, they do not enter the inside of cells, so they are not stopping hydrogen peroxide at its source.

damo123 said...
Absolutely agree CC.

In any case 'conventional' is just a label and can mean different things to different people. There are some that would argue that conventional therapy is the therapy that has been around for thousands of years and that modern medicine is actually unconventional in that sense.

I don't think anyone owns any threads on here and no one can dictate what people should write in a reply once it is well meant and obeying forum rules. In particular you have zero authority VanJordan to tell anyone what they should or should not be saying. It is almost like that you have so much uncertainty about the therapy of yours that you are unwilling to take any criticism from anyone else. Your previous comment is in fact very unscientific (for someone with the background in science you claim to have).

You say "Doubts are not proof that Dr. Pravda is wrong". Well you are the one following and espougaing the research of Dr. Pravda. Ancedotal evidence is not proof that Dr. Pravda is right. The burden of proof on this one my friend, is 100% with you.

I'm not trying to censor anybody, I'm asking people to show courtesy and stay on topic. But now we are getting into personal attacks against me again, like what happened in other threads. I won't entertain them. This thread isn't about me. It's about Dr. Pravda's theory. Feel free to critique it directly, I will respond to that. I will not respond to immature attacks on my character because they are irrelevant. I am only here to help others as I have been helped.

You're right, there's not 100% evidence, we are still waiting for Pravda's next paper. I am not here "espousing" anything, I am giving a testimonial of how effective this theory was for me after literally nothing worked. My story has been repeated ad nauseum... feel free to scroll up and read it. For me this was miraculous.

Others in this thread are being helped as well. Feel free to give the protocol a try yourself. Most of the supplements are nutraceuticals and are low risk. We can read studies all day but ultimately it's giving things a try that determines outcomes. Have a nice day.