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Van Jordan

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Ulcerative Colitis
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1Wish
Regular Member
Joined : Mar 2018
Posts : 287
Posted 8/9/2022 6:17 PM (GMT -8)
@VanJordan. I recently brought up the subject with my GI.
Specifically I mentioned I would like to take a bunch of antioxidant supplements and if that is OK / would conflict with meds.

He said its fine.

In fact, he even mentioned that it is known that antioxidants can help UC, however the issue is how to deliver them correctly to the body, getting past stomach acid etc

Do all the supplements you mentioned accomplish this?
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VanJordan
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Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 8/9/2022 7:09 PM (GMT -8)

1Wish said...
@VanJordan. I recently brought up the subject with my GI.
Specifically I mentioned I would like to take a bunch of antioxidant supplements and if that is OK / would conflict with meds.

He said its fine.

In fact, he even mentioned that it is known that antioxidants can help UC, however the issue is how to deliver them correctly to the body, getting past stomach acid etc

Do all the supplements you mentioned accomplish this?

Most antioxidants have an acidic pH or biomolecular configuration that does not interact with stomach acid. This is not really an issue.
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Pinocchio
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2022
Posts : 23
Posted 8/10/2022 1:52 AM (GMT -8)

1Wish said...
@VanJordan. I recently brought up the subject with my GI.
Specifically I mentioned I would like to take a bunch of antioxidant supplements and if that is OK / would conflict with meds.

He said its fine.

I also told my GI about Dr. Pravdas work. First, she was interested, googled it, read one paper for about 1 minute and said it's quack after that lol.
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Mark4623
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2022
Posts : 56
Posted 8/10/2022 10:21 AM (GMT -8)
GI's don't want to hear about this novel therapy from Dr. Pravda, as it will have a definite impact on the big Pharma companies, as well as GI doctors "losing a bunch of customers", and money. I cant wait til the final Pravda paper comes out!
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poopydoop
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Joined : Dec 2018
Posts : 1799
Posted 8/10/2022 12:11 PM (GMT -8)
Where I live (outside the US) gastroenterologists are swamped with patients, and healthcare services are still dealing with a huge backlog from covid (example: i just had to wait 5 months for a dexa scan appointment, which takes 5 minutes). I'm quite sure that any therapy which reduces the burden on the IBD specialists in particular, and healthcare in general, would be GLADLY received. Furthermore unless you are personally informed about the expertise and skills of pincocchio's GI you cannot make assumptions why they respond in a particular way. Perhaps with her (many years of specialist) training she might be able to spot phoney science?
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VanJordan
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Posts : 566
Posted 8/10/2022 12:20 PM (GMT -8)

Pinocchio said...
I also told my GI about Dr. Pravdas work. First, she was interested, googled it, read one paper for about 1 minute and said it's quack after that lol.

Opinions aren't facts.
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VanJordan
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Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 8/10/2022 12:30 PM (GMT -8)

poopydoop said...
Where I live (outside the US) gastroenterologists are swamped with patients, and healthcare services are still dealing with a huge backlog from covid (example: i just had to wait 5 months for a dexa scan appointment, which takes 5 minutes). I'm quite sure that any therapy which reduces the burden on the IBD specialists in particular, and healthcare in general, would be GLADLY received. Furthermore unless you are personally informed about the expertise and skills of pincocchio's GI you cannot make assumptions why they respond in a particular way. Perhaps with her (many years of specialist) training she might be able to spot phoney science?

Without codifying that GI's opinion into a scientific paper, we will never know the basis of their comments or her qualification for saying so, which is why she should be taken with a grain of salt. I've had GIs tell me to my face that diet has nothing to do with UC and I should just eat whatever I want, yet it's common knowledge in the patient communities that diet can help or aggravate. I've been met with similar levels of dismissal when I tried to talk about things that have helped me reduce severity of disease. They'll tell me to get a colectomy because my UC is refractory, yet admonish my attempts to seek out other solutions. This is why I can't work with conventional doctors anymore. The closed-mindedness and arrogance can be astounding. Not in all of them, but in a lot of them. They are also bound by professional authorities to only support pharmaceutical interventions, so frankly they are not really qualified to say if alternative methods work or not. They aren't trained in plant medicine, for example. Seeing a qualified herbalist helped my UC whereas a GI doctor who is unqualified could just dismiss herbalism entirely. Why do qualifications not work both ways? An herbalist can't legally tell you to stop your meds so why can a GI doctor say no herbs work? Doesn't make sense really.

When you are party to the dominant philosophy governing a certain disease, it is very easy to act superior and dismiss independent attempts to look for novel solutions. It is much harder to be that person on the outside who is trying to help people by looking at other avenues. If the GI really did call it "quack," then that says a lot about her.

I personally think that each UC patient is on their own journey and it's up to them to figure out what helps and what doesn't. If that's pharmaceuticals and surgery, fine. If that's alternative means, fine. They all have relatively low success rates and we're all just trying to save ourselves.

Dr. Pravda's research has been a godsend for me. Just knowing that redox medicine holds the key has saved my life. I went from a 2.5 year prednisone-dependent, refractory flare to remission within a month using this knowledge. Now I'm medication free and in optimal health. I can't worry too much about what a random GI doctor has to say. The proof is in the pudding for me. If I waited for MDs to approve of all the things I've tried I would literally be dead many times over. It's your life and you get to choose what you do with it.
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damo123
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Joined : Jul 2007
Posts : 942
Posted 8/10/2022 1:06 PM (GMT -8)
The problem here is that UC is not a single condition; it is an umbrella term for a whole range of conditions producing bowel inflammation and for which the medical community cannot yet, and probably not in the near future, distinguish between. We might all see the same symptoms of blood, urgency, mucus, etc but how we got to that point can be very very different for each of us with different genes, different triggers and different cytokines involved. There is no single or root cure for what we call UC today; simply because the condition is too generic to have such a single cure. That idea is too simplistic; ive been on HW since 2007 and I remember all the wondrous cures that worked for some but 15 years later fizzled out..... and just because it works for a sample size of 1 or 2 or 3 does not mean it generalizes to the thousands of people across the world who are labelled with having UC.

I think it is great that people post what works for them and I think we should all experiment and be open minded and see what works for us. It is an individual disease and in its current form will not be cured **for all** by interventions such as rectal meds, remicade or Dr Pravda's latest antidote!! But that is not to stop each of us from experimenting ourselves!! Neither am I in favour of bashing the GI community. There are plenty of docs out there who do not treat patients well but at the same time there are others who do listen, who do fight the corner of their patients, who are genuine and who do battle the insurance companies to make sure their patients get the best possible treatment. There are doctors out there who do care...(even as much as perry cox!). Some of us on here have had our colons and lives saved by GIs and the medical community.
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cooper360
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2010
Posts : 179
Posted 8/10/2022 2:06 PM (GMT -8)
VanJordan…my son is on all of your suggested supplements and is feeling pretty well
on them. He is under a doctors care & is tapering off prednisone at the moment. With that in mind is there a supplement or food that would help with constipation & not work against the other supplements? His colitis was diagnosed left-sided and constipation has been a issue. He says he feels pretty normal some days aside from this issue!
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CCinPA
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Joined : Dec 2014
Posts : 2524
Posted 8/10/2022 5:12 PM (GMT -8)
Cooper -- many times constipation with UC is caused by inflammation or a stricture. Has he talked to his doc about it?
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poopydoop
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Joined : Dec 2018
Posts : 1799
Posted 8/10/2022 5:31 PM (GMT -8)
I'm sorry you had bad experiences with "conventional" doctors. I tried 5 different ones before landing at my current one. He is brilliant and the only one who got me in remission after years of continuous flaring. The other ones I saw were neither closed-minded nor arrogant, but somewhat constrained to follow standard protocols and lacking resources. I am at a research-based hospital now where they do lots of trials and investigations, including fecal transplants, and yes they are interested in dietary interventions but are finding it very complicated to disentangle.
I work in science - the key to which is independent thinking. Do not assume that because there is a standard paradigm everyone is brainwashed and blinkered. There are models and hypotheses which shift as new data becomes available. Science makes progress when there is collaboration and discussion. Especially in this day and age where expensive computational or lab resources are required, being an independent scientist is barely feasible.
I've read books on dietary interventions for UC and there is more than enough evidence that diet helps some people.
If people find alternatives that work for them then great... but there is no need to demonise conventional medicine in the process. It's not black and white.
None of us can tell whether pincocchio's GI is accurate in her assessment, but I'd be more inclined to trust her assessment than someone with no medical training who has a vested and emotional interest in her being wrong.
If pravda's methods help some people then that's also great. Do I think one solo researcher has independently solved a major problem that hundreds or thousands of others have been working on (collaboratively) for decades? I would consider that statistically unlikely.
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cooper360
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2010
Posts : 179
Posted 8/10/2022 7:23 PM (GMT -8)

CCinPA said...
Cooper -- many times constipation with UC is caused by inflammation or a stricture. Has he talked to his doc about it?

Yes he has…his doc just retired, he’s seen the new doc a couple times! The first doc recommended the usual over the counter remedies! Colonoscopy wasn’t great in the Spring, he just started Entyvio a couple months ago, was on Remicade before that…..he’s been in a terrible flare for a few months! He’s been feeling better since he started Van Jordan’s suggested supplements… aside from the constipation!
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poopydoop
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Joined : Dec 2018
Posts : 1799
Posted 8/11/2022 1:44 AM (GMT -8)
Entyvio can take a couple of months to start working.
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Pinocchio
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2022
Posts : 23
Posted 8/11/2022 4:42 AM (GMT -8)
Well, I'm one of the more severe cases of UC, so I'm in treatment at the university clinic. I do think they have much more experience than some of your local GI doctors; on the other hand most of the doctors I had there are pretty young (around 30-40 years old). They often change their position after some years, so I already had like 8 different doctors there treating me in my 3 years being there.
Personally, I don't think my current doctor is openminded. Last time she recommended me eating whole-grains for getting more iron into my body. I do think most of us would share my opinion, that unsoluble fiber really hurt inflammed parts of the colon. And to be honest: She didn't read the paper, she just looked at it for 1 minute. This was enough for me to feel disrespected.

@hambo88 Sorry for my late response. I do take higher doses than VanJordan; except for the Vitamin C. Am around 60Kg at the moment, so still pretty underweight:

Quercetin: 500mg
Curcumin: 1000mg
Rutin: 522mg
Grape Seed Extract: 500mg
Vitamin C: 200mg
Butyrat Sodium: 600mg
Chaga Tea: around 750ml a day
Qing Dai: ~2/3-1 tablespoon
Kratom: 1 tablespoon morning and evening
Psyllium Husk with phosphatidylcholin: one and two tablespoons combined in the morning
VSL3: 1 pack in the morning & evening
Mutaflor: 2 pills in the morning

I also added Fishoil (3000mg), Clay and Vitamin E (400IU)

I will try to stop the kratom and reduce the qing dai when the inflammation stops completely; they are giving me some minor headdaches and kratom is known to be addictive. My BM are pretty perfect at the moment; 2 or 3 a day bristol scale between 3 and 4. I still see some blood sometimes, mostly attached to the last part of my BM. Some minor discomfort aswell. I hope this will clear aswell soon.
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poopydoop
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Joined : Dec 2018
Posts : 1799
Posted 8/11/2022 5:40 AM (GMT -8)
Ah it's a pity you didn't ask her why she arrived at that conclusion- would save a lot of speculation on this thread! It sounds like you keep seeing registrars (sorry I don't know how you call them in the US). Can you ask to see someone more senior? Agree whole grains is not smart, that would be so uncomfortable when flaring.

Post Edited (poopydoop) : 8/11/2022 6:43:43 AM (GMT-7)

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Pinocchio
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2022
Posts : 23
Posted 8/11/2022 5:48 AM (GMT -8)
I noted that she hadn't read the text at all, but she just said that hydrogen peroxide can't be the cause for UC. And then she said, that there are a lot of quacks out there playing with the hopes of IBD sufferers. At this point we stopped talking about it.
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1Wish
Regular Member
Joined : Mar 2018
Posts : 287
Posted 8/11/2022 8:51 AM (GMT -8)
Wow, getting those exact brands of supplements you use @VanJordan here in Spain is a nightmare.

I tried ordering BROQ from Amazon Canada and it got stopped at customs and is going to be returned..
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Hambo88
Regular Member
Joined : Feb 2018
Posts : 257
Posted 8/11/2022 4:11 PM (GMT -8)
pinochio: thank you!!
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CCinPA
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2014
Posts : 2524
Posted 8/11/2022 6:46 PM (GMT -8)

cooper360 said...
Yes he has…his doc just retired, he’s seen the new doc a couple times! The first doc recommended the usual over the counter remedies! Colonoscopy wasn’t great in the Spring, he just started Entyvio a couple months ago, was on Remicade before that…..he’s been in a terrible flare for a few months! He’s been feeling better since he started Van Jordan’s suggested supplements… aside from the constipation!

He's been on Entyvio a couple months and is tapering prednisone, but you credit his improvement to the supplements?

Antioxidants are good for everyone -- with or without IBD so no harm in taking them I suppose.
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cooper360
Regular Member
Joined : Jul 2010
Posts : 179
Posted 8/11/2022 8:43 PM (GMT -8)
Yep…that’s his feeling! Remicade helped very little, didn’t get him out of a flare in a yrs time. Doc decided to try Entyvio! My son feels like the supplements have helped with prednisone taper also. He feels better than he has in a while. He hasn’t been on Entyvio long enough to see results yet. He’s not ready to stop traditional meds for supplements only, at this point! I realize it may be hard to pin point what’s helping at the moment But he continues to take the supplements because he hasn’t felt this good in a year!
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TheGrifter
New Member
Joined : May 2022
Posts : 13
Posted 8/11/2022 9:31 PM (GMT -8)
I've had a similar experience to a number of posters here.

I was in a 2 year flare and was unable to get into remission with all the first-line medications (mesalazine, prednisolone, budesonide). I tried every available type of administration for these meds - tablets, suppositories and enemas.

I went through 3 different GIs, and started seeing a new GP who specialises in autoimmune and digestive medicine. Nothing really worked, my UC waxed and waned, some days better than others, but symptoms basically always there.

I finally took matters into my own hands and started the Briggs Protocol. A lot of the supplements recommended in Briggs are anti-oxidants:

Vitamin E
Curcumin
Rutin
NAC
Phosphatidylcholine
Boswellia serrata

It wasn't until I started using these that I finally saw a material improvement. I've now been in remission for 6 months. My calprotectin level is now totally normal according to my GI.

I've completely stopped using mesalazine and use budesonide only if I start to feel like I'm getting symptoms. Previously I couldn't get into remission using budesonide foam twice a day. Apart from that the main treatment is vitamin E enema with a rotation of other ingredients in it (phosphatidylcholine, butyrate, etc).
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VanJordan
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Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 8/11/2022 11:45 PM (GMT -8)
I remind everyone again -- please keep conversation about personal conventional medicine protocols out of this thread. There are hundreds of other discussions about that. We are not here to debate modern medicine's efficacy. My post above about how it didn't work for me was about my case only. I am not telling other people what to do with their treatment plans, but this thread is not for tweaking conventional medical protocols that people are using. Please cease debates about this, I am not interested.

This thread is for discussing Dr. Pravda's theory and redox protocols. If you don't believe in the protocol or you think UC is a mulit-focal disease and not caused by just hydrogen peroxide, that's fine, but please respect that others like myself are here to support this theory and investigate its veracity with our own experiments. Doubts are not proof that Dr. Pravda is wrong. We are still waiting to read his latest peer reviewed paper. In the mean time, we only have his past papers + our experiences to go on.

I am personally promoting his research because his methods have made me achieve medication-free remission. Others in this thread (and beyond that I have spoken to) are also experiencing success rates.

If you believe this is unreal or unqualified then that's fine but please take your hard skepticism somewhere else. This research has given me real hope for the first time in over 7 years of refractory disease and I know in my heart of hearts that it will help millions of other people with UC.
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VanJordan
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Posts : 566
Posted 8/11/2022 11:51 PM (GMT -8)

damo123 said...
The problem here is that UC is not a single condition; it is an umbrella term for a whole range of conditions producing bowel inflammation and for which the medical community cannot yet, and probably not in the near future, distinguish between.

What is the scientific basis of your opening thesis in this post? When ischemia, infection, rare genetic disorders and acute injury are ruled out - as these account for a minority of UC cases - then the rest of the cases are always classified as idiopathic, meaning we don't know the cause. If the cause has not been known up until now, then what proofs are you looking at that would demonstrate UC is an umbrella term for many different conditions manifesting as the same symptoms?

Furthermore, if hydrogen peroxide is common to all idiopathic UC, as Pravda has discovered, then doesn't that mean there is actually one cause and not many? The manifestation of blood, mucous, tenesmus, etc. in idiopathic UC is due to a state of advanced oxidation. If the source of oxidation is removed then the UC goes away. The common source of oxidation is endogenous hydrogen peroxide.

I am curious to hear your thoughts on this.
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VanJordan
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Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 8/11/2022 11:59 PM (GMT -8)

Pinocchio said...
I noted that she hadn't read the text at all, but she just said that hydrogen peroxide can't be the cause for UC. And then she said, that there are a lot of quacks out there playing with the hopes of IBD sufferers. At this point we stopped talking about it.

This has been my experience with most GI specialists. Although Dr. Pravda's theories have brought me the most radically beneficial results, I did find other things over the years that partially helped. When I brought that research to my healthcare team, they wouldn't even look at it. They just dismissed it outright as impossible. At first I attributed this to the parochial nature of doctors in my city, but when I went further afield I encountered the same attitudes in the majority of the GI community. It's usually outliers, those with independent funding, or those simply working on their own (like Dr. Pravda) who end up making breakthroughs. My UC was killing me and the only option my GI team would give me was colectomy. If I had listened to them and didn't go looking for more answers, I would have an ostomy by now.

People with severe, refractory UC account for 10% of all UCers. I am one of those. Conventional medicine failed me a long time ago. I appreciate it works for others. UCers in different categories of severity have better recovery rates. I have met UC patients who went into remission simply because UC woke them up to the fact that they had a really bad diet, full of processed (oxidized) food. When they switched to a healthier diet, they received enough antioxidants to turn the tide. That's why some UCers run around thinking diet is the root cause... because changing their diet was all it took. For people with more severe UC, i.e. more oxidation, consuming exogenous antioxidants from food may help them, but it's not enough. Then you have people like me who are 10/10 bad and need concentrated antioxidants in supplement forms to even have a hope.

I am like the canary in the mine. I have tried EVERYTHING under the sun since 2015 to stop my flares. If Dr. Pravda's theory didn't work, I would still be flaring. Nothing, and I mean nothing, has turned around my UC as fast as this theory. Like I said, I went from 2.5 years of prednisone dependence to remission in 1 month, but there was immediate improvement noted within a week. This is not a quack theory, it's cellular biology and redox medicine, something that is a relatively new field and is why most GI doctors have no clue about it.

And what I can say with total confidence about this method, is that I'm not even worried my UC will come back. With other methods, I saw a lot of improvement and even had temporary remission, but there was always this thought in the back of my mind that I better watch what I eat or not take on too much life stress. UC was like this boogie man that could come back at any time. Since using Pravda's theory and taking the antioxidants, I actually don't even think about UC anymore. I eat what I want, exercise as much as I want, sit in the sun as much as I want, I can even do unhealthy things (like party) that would've been an instant flare before. It has been miraculous and I am so grateful. I was refractory, part of that 10%. There's no way on earth my UC was ever going to spontaneously enter remission on its own. And here I am. The redox theory works, and through my science studies at school, I have a very competent grasp of why. I want to share this with everyone.

This is the reason why I want as many people to know as possible about the reduction theory of UC. If, as a patient, you have spent years ruling out all other kinds of possible causes and you are just resigned to having UC forever, I highly recommend you invest your attention in redox research. You won't be disappointed.
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VanJordan
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2019
Posts : 566
Posted 8/12/2022 12:03 AM (GMT -8)

1Wish said...
Wow, getting those exact brands of supplements you use @VanJordan here in Spain is a nightmare.

I tried ordering BROQ from Amazon Canada and it got stopped at customs and is going to be returned..

I am sorry to hear you're having such difficulties. Although BROCQ is the best sulforaphane supplement I've found, it's not the only one. Surely there must be sulforaphane available somewhere in Europe? I know that the European market is very pro-pharmaceutical and they restrict alternative medicine, but I hope you can find something.

Most of the antioxidants in the protocol are food derived, so in theory they should not be as regulated. Quercetin comes from fruit skins, sulforaphane from broccoli, grape seed extract from grape seeds, curcumin from turmeric, rutin from various plants but often buckwheat, etc. Scavenging these from foods is not enough for a treatment protocol, so the supplements are required due to their concentrated nature. So hopefully you can locate some European analogues. Are there any practitioners in Europe you could reach out to for asking consumer questions?
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