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Van Jordan

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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 7/26/2022 12:04 AM (GMT -8)
I've looked into hydrogen water before. It is essentially water that is infused with inert hydrogen gas at high pressure. As soon as the container is opened and normal atmospheric pressure enters, the dissolved H2 returns to gas form and leaves. The same thing happens in your stomach. Because the pressurized gas does not change the pH of the water, it means that the H2 is not ionized. So I don't see how this could possibly be of benefit.

The hydrogen that we need for reducing hydrogen peroxide to water (H2O2 + 2H+ ---> 2H2O) is attached to organic molecules (enzymes, specifically) which engage in a very metabolically controlled reduction of peroxide. Even if the H2 compressed into hydrogen water could be accessible as free H+ somehow, the body will not tolerate stray reducing factors floating around the blood because they would cause acidosis. The kidneys will release bicarbonate to neutralize them:

H2CO3 <--> HCO3- + H+ (reaction goes both ways)

In short, hydrogen water is not useful for us and frankly it's probably a gimmick.
Posted 7/26/2022 12:44 AM (GMT -8)
And what about the studies?
Posted 7/26/2022 1:31 PM (GMT -8)
The studies the companies reference all have conflicts of interest. If hydrogen water was a thing, Dr. Pravda would've recommended it by now.
Posted 7/26/2022 3:02 PM (GMT -8)
@VanJordan, do you have any concerns that the body could potentially create additional H202 over time in order to fight the incoming volume of antioxidants?

If the body is capable of eventually creating antibodies to biologics, couldn't a similar thing happen with this protocol?

1Wish
Posted 7/26/2022 4:56 PM (GMT -8)

1Wish said...
@VanJordan, do you have any concerns that the body could potentially create additional H202 over time in order to fight the incoming volume of antioxidants?

H2O2 is a byproduct of cellular respiration. It's always being made so there will never be a deficiency. It's the excess that's the problem.

1Wish said...
If the body is capable of eventually creating antibodies to biologics, couldn't a similar thing happen with this protocol?

No because UC is not caused by an immune disorder and H2O2 is inorganic. The body doesn't form immunity to inorganic molecules, only biological ones. In fact, oxygen species like H2O2 are so pervasive that cell walls don't even block them. They diffuse through cell walls passively, which is how oxygen reaches mitochondria. Likewise, when H2O2 builds in the cell to a high concentration, it begins to leak out of the cell and into other body extracellular compartments where it doesn't belong. Then it starts doing damage.

Biologics are chimeric proteins made from more than one species. The body recognizes them as invaders and eventually develops immunity to them.

The auto-immune theory is wrong. When you remove the excess H2O2, the body heals and the immune response backs down. The immune system is only involved because there is an ongoing injury being cased by base-corrosion of the gut. Much like if you kept putting peroxide on a skin wound, it would never heal. It would remain inflamed and irritated. If you remove the peroxide then the wound can heal and the immune system backs off.

True auto-immune is medically rare and a result of genetic abnormalities. The immune systems of the overwhelming majority of UC patients are healthy.
Posted 7/27/2022 2:03 AM (GMT -8)
Quick update:
My IP got unbanned, the smoking didn't work out. I felt some minor improvements first, but they didn't last and might just been placebo. Maybe I'm giving up too fast, but I don't feel like this is going in the right direction, so I'm canceling this approach.

I will most likely get an ironinfusion in the next time due being anemic. Will this cause further damage to my colon?

Post Edited (Pinocchio) : 7/27/2022 3:43:25 AM (GMT-7)

Posted 7/27/2022 12:37 PM (GMT -8)
Just get the iron, don't worry about if it damages your colon. Having low iron and hemoglobin is a nightmare to be avoided.
Posted 7/28/2022 10:43 AM (GMT -8)
Any thoughts on timing of the supplements? With food or before exercise etc?

Any thoughts on this as an antioxidant and anti-inflammatory..:
https://examine.com/supplements/pycnogenol/
Posted 7/28/2022 1:15 PM (GMT -8)

lUvsoCcer said...
Any thoughts on timing of the supplements? With food or before exercise etc?

They are mostly nutriceuticals, so you don't need to overthink it. Take them on an empty stomach but if they cause an upset, take them with food.

lUvsoCcer said...
Any thoughts on this as an antioxidant and anti-inflammatory..:
https://examine.com/supplements/pycnogenol/

I don't know anything about this, sorry.
Posted 7/28/2022 1:19 PM (GMT -8)
Quick update on the Pravda Enema if anyone is interested. Spoke with Peoples Custom RX to fill the Pravda enema, and they only ship to two states. I live in Florida, which is not one of the states they ship to, but said they will share the enema directions with the compounding pharmacy of your choice that ships in your state.
Posted 7/28/2022 2:15 PM (GMT -8)

lUvsoCcer said...
Any thoughts on this as an antioxidant and anti-inflammatory..:
https://examine.com/supplements/pycnogenol/

It is one of my essentials mostly (along with bilberry) to maintain IOP, intraocular pressure in the eye, in the normal range. I take a range of supplements for my eyes and they are pretty much the same ones that manage my UC so well.

To make a long story short, several years I had a retinal detachment that was complicated by the doctor screwing up the surgery. He said everything was fine, go home, and not to worry. But at my next scheduled postop I was immediately hospitalized for major surgery to save my eye. Silicon oil was inserted to stabilize my retina while it healed.

Unfortunately silicon oil induces macular edema. But the drops to manage the edema increased macular hypertension to the point of serious glaucoma. I posted all about this several years ago in HW and Old Mike seemed especially interested. But my thread seems to have disappeared.

Anyway pycnogenol is a potent form of vitamin C. The Indians showed settlers how to extract it from pine bark to prevent scurvy. It is a key factor that keeps my eye pressure within the normal range.
Posted 7/29/2022 12:15 AM (GMT -8)

IamCurious said...
It is one of my essentials mostly (along with bilberry) to maintain IOP, intraocular pressure in the eye, in the normal range. I take a range of supplements for my eyes and they are pretty much the same ones that manage my UC so well.

To make a long story short, several years I had a retinal detachment that was complicated by the doctor screwing up the surgery. He said everything was fine, go home, and not to worry. But at my next scheduled postop I was immediately hospitalized for major surgery to save my eye. Silicon oil was inserted to stabilize my retina while it healed.

Unfortunately silicon oil induces macular edema. But the drops to manage the edema increased macular hypertension to the point of serious glaucoma. I posted all about this several years ago in HW and Old Mike seemed especially interested. But my thread seems to have disappeared.

Anyway pycnogenol is a potent form of vitamin C. The Indians showed settlers how to extract it from pine bark to prevent scurvy. It is a key factor that keeps my eye pressure within the normal range.

Thank you for sharing your story. You've piqued my interest in pycnogenol, for sure. I'm going to look into it more.
Posted 7/29/2022 3:42 AM (GMT -8)
As it's a form of vitamin C maybe a good alternative to camu camu.
Just an update I went straight in and I'm taking a lot of antioxidants as I've had many of them previously and been fine separately. Normally I'm always on the edge of bleeding every few weeks but so far no blood and better formed stools. I take oral mesalazine as well as mesalazine enemas when I bleed (not used in two weeks). In time my plan is to lower the mesalazine dose slightly to see if my stools firm up. I'm also looking into Qing Dai. I'm not sure if it fits into this theory but many have had success with it just need a good UK source.In time it would be good if we could start collating info on this protocol as the stuff we do have is spread amongst papers and these threads? Possibly a Google Excel listing supplements and doses? I know it's early though and really we need the new Pravda paper.
Posted 7/30/2022 6:41 AM (GMT -8)
Got this email from Dr. Pravda yesterday. Last sentence talks about his next paper, and where its at with the publisher.

Hi Mark:

The most direct way is to have your local compounding pharmacy call Peoples pharmacy to obtain the compounding instructions for the Pravda enema. Then your local pharmacy can get the prescription from your doctor.

All the instructions will be detailed in my upcoming paper, which is in the final stages of preparation with the publisher prior to being published online.

Best

JP
Posted 7/31/2022 3:01 PM (GMT -8)
Qing dai and Ros
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4306662/
Posted 8/4/2022 9:31 AM (GMT -8)
Just in case people haven't seen some of the discussions on the raypeat forums:

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/cure-ulcerative-colitis-in-6-weeks.46821/

Of note are some of the links to selfhacked on reducing hydrogen peroxide and increasing catalayse.

https://selfhacked.com/blog/catalase-benefits/

https://selfhack.com/blog/novel-solutions-to-prevent-graying-hair/

"The following substances have been found to increase catalase: Crimini mushrooms, Sweet potatoes, Chayawanprash or Amla, Raw Honey, Ceylon Cinnamon, Cocoa, Tea, Fish Oil, Kombucha/ACV, Flax, Tulsi, Fenugreek, Ginseng, Rooibos, Soy, Grape seed extract, Milk thistle, Resveratrol, Astragalus, Rehmannia, Curcumin, Reishi, RLA, Coq10, Bitter Melon, Gynostemma, OLE, Dan Shen, Ashwagandha, Bacopa, Gotu Kola, Rhodiola, Berberine, Carnitine, Ginger."
Posted 8/4/2022 2:09 PM (GMT -8)
Hey guys, wanted to give a short update: I'm feeling around 80% better. Mornings aren't perfect, but just had a bristol stool chart 4 without blood or pain. Pretty perfect Bowel Movement. Having around 3-4 BM a day, but more moving to the 3, which was normal for me Pre UC.

I did made some changes in my protocol: I stopped the sulforaphan, because I somehow felt its too harsh for me. I'm not 100% sure about it tho. In addition I added:

L Glutamin
Glycin
VSL 3
Mutaflor (it can be prescribed here in Germany, so I took the chance)
Qing Dai
Chaga Mushroom Tea
Kept on Smoking 2-4 Cigarettes a day
Also I ate a lot of spinach, which somehow really calms my gut

I do think that Qing Dai was the main thing, which got me on the edge to remission, but can't be 100% sure. But since starting it, my improvements have been really impressive. Unfortunately, I started it at the same time with VSL and Mutaflor. My Doc made a lot of pressure, moving me on Biologicals, so I kinda panicked and threw it all in at the same time. That's why I can't really tell. But things are moving finally in the right direction after 2 years of trying; fingers crossed.

Post Edited (Pinocchio) : 8/4/2022 3:16:32 PM (GMT-7)

Posted 8/5/2022 2:14 AM (GMT -8)
pinoccio: do you take only these supplements?
Posted 8/5/2022 5:59 AM (GMT -8)

Pinoccho said...
Also I ate a lot of spinach, which somehow really calms my gut

Ha Ha.
Old veterans like myself remember how spinach with sunflower seeds was a prominent topic at HW for years.
https://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=1696672
Posted 8/5/2022 8:03 AM (GMT -8)

Hambo88 said...
pinoccio: do you take only these supplements?

No, I still follow the protocol of Van Jordan except the sulforaphan.
I also take psyllium husk powder with phosphatidylcholin + Kratom, the latter for over 6months (would like to quit soon).

@IamCurious, Interesting, haha.
Posted 8/5/2022 11:31 AM (GMT -8)

Pinocchio said...

Hambo88 said...
pinoccio: do you take only these supplements?

No, I still follow the protocol of Van Jordan except the sulforaphan.
I also take psyllium husk powder with phosphatidylcholin + Kratom, the latter for over 6months (would like to quit soon).

@IamCurious, Interesting, haha.

could give me the dosages? and your body weight?
thx
Posted 8/5/2022 11:52 AM (GMT -8)
I'm curious to know why Van Jordan doesn't have R-Lipoic Acid on his list from Life Extension? Isn't that the one oral treatment Dr Pravda has mentioned he gives. Just wondering if I missed something or why nobody seems to be taking that as well.
Posted 8/5/2022 3:35 PM (GMT -8)
R-Lipoic Acid won't make it passed the acids in the stomach. Besides, the form that Pravda speaks about is Dihydrolipoc Acid (DHLA) which nobody manufactures anymore, and hasn't for a while. If you are going to take a lipoic supplement, I think the one you are looking for is Alpha-Lipoic Acid.
Posted 8/5/2022 3:41 PM (GMT -8)

VanJordan said...
R-ALA is not appropriate for UC patients because it is the oxidized form of lipoic acid. Because UC patients have physiology that makes it hard for them to reduce anti-oxidants back to their reduced form, taking oxidized versions of anti-oxidants will put additional stress on the reduction pathways in the body. This pulls reduction power away from the hydrogen peroxide pathways, leading to more hydrogen peroxide and a worsening of UC.

I can confirm this as I tried R-ALA four separate times when I was working with the idea that my UC was caused by heavy metals like mercury. Each time I used R-ALA at any dose, my UC got worse. I thought this might be due to heavy metal chelation but the problem never got better. Now I don't touch R-ALA whatosever.

Another recent example that proves the reductive theory of disease for me is that a friend bought me a bottle of NAD+ to try. She said it would help my sleep, which hasn't been great recently. For the first 3 days I slept great, but on day 4 I started having gut symptoms for the first time in months. NAD+ is the oxidized form of NADH. If a normal person takes NAD+, their body will reduce it to NADH without any problems. In a UC patient, the NAD+ being reduced to NADH pulls H+ away from the reduction pathways that reduce hydrogen peroxide into water:

H2O2 + 2H ---> 2H2O

Every time I get gut symptoms, I can now trace it back to something in my life that is harming my reduction capacity. I have stopped taking most multivitamins for this reason. They are largely oxidized versions of vitamins and therefore not appropriate for UCers.

Dr. Pravda used R-DHLA (dihydrolipoic acid) in his enema study. It is the reduced form of lipoic acid and is probably a much better candidate as it would provide reducing factors that transform hydrogen peroxide into water. However, I have not been able to find R-DHLA anywhere on the supplement market in the entire world. I posted a link to the pharmacy that makes Pravda's enema. If they are including DHLA in the formula then maybe they would know the answer.

Posted 8/5/2022 6:48 PM (GMT -8)
Thanks Mark. Appreciate the repost.
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