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Van Jordan/Dr. Pravda (antioxidant method

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Ulcerative Colitis
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Posted 8/16/2022 1:28 PM (GMT -8)
Serenity Now, I agree with you in terms of the bigger picture. For those of us who are refractory and need help now, this paper is a goldmine. And because his previous paper already gave me information that got me into remission, I intend to give this a lot of attention.

Seeing that a patient went into remission who had been refractory for 39 years almost makes me want to cry.
Posted 8/16/2022 1:43 PM (GMT -8)
I just mailed this latest Pravda paper to my GI doctor (like actually put it in the mail). Figured it would get more attention than an email.
Posted 8/16/2022 2:34 PM (GMT -8)
I also sent a link to the paper to my functional doctor, as well as a link to my GI on their patient portal. My functional doc has already read the previous paper, and was waiting for the final paper, so now they both have it.
Posted 8/16/2022 2:41 PM (GMT -8)
fantastic work boys....thanks for giving us all updates that you were able to email this paper to different persons...means a lot to us
Posted 8/16/2022 5:17 PM (GMT -8)

VanJordan said...
The fact that the mods let this kind of behaviour run amok on these forums, with their only strategy being to shut down whole discussions, is a black mark on this forum. Without real consequences to offenders, combined with the mod team's one-solution to every problem, it means that valuable discourse can't possibly take place here.

To those interested in civilized conversation, in addition to the threads we're struggling to maintain here, I'm going to be creating an off-site chat group through Google Groups where we can talk interrupted by trolls. It's very clear that the mods here support this behaviour by their lack of action, which calls into question who is running these forums.

I'll let you all know once the outside group is ready. Cheers.

That would probably be for the best, because you know people may continue to make comments you don't like here. You don't like it when you are called names but are ok with calling others names -- "sociopath" "curmudgeon" really??? At least Steve is humorous in his ridicule. The words you use are not meant to be funny. You could always put us on ignore and you won't have to see our comments.

I scanned the Pravda paper ... he used 36 of his own patients and 85% had remission in 8 weeks but no followup to see how they did long term. These were his own patients and he didn't follow up with them. I thought that was odd. He did say he contacted 1 patient who was still in remission years later ... what about the rest??

Another part to consider in evaluating the paper:
Author contributions: Pravda J is the sole author of this manuscript and solely responsible for its content; Pravda J performed all the research, collected, analyzed, and interpreted all the data; Pravda J conceived of and developed the hydrogen peroxide-based pathogenesis of ulcerative colitis; Pravda J prepared and wrote the manuscript and performed all critical revisions; Pravda J certifies that this manuscript is the product of his original research; and Pravda J has overall responsibility for this manuscript.

No one else analyzed or interpreted his data. Still there may be interesting info. I'll read the whole thing when I get a chance.
Posted 8/16/2022 5:41 PM (GMT -8)
I just skimmed it quickly. It's more like a review/overview paper than a scientific study. The 36 patients and the 85% remission in 8 weeks were already published in his paper from 2019. There is no mention of the corresponding remission rate on placebo, unless I missed it. Did he have a control group? Overall, a bit dubious to make claims of a cure on the basis of one patient.
Posted 8/16/2022 5:50 PM (GMT -8)

CCinPA said...
That would probably be for the best, because you know people may continue to make comments you don't like here. You don't like it when you are called names but are ok with calling others names -- "sociopath" "curmudgeon" really??? At least Steve is humorous in his ridicule. The words you use are not meant to be funny. You could always put us on ignore and you won't have to see our comments.

Oh I'm not going anywhere. You won't shut me up. I'm here to stay. I'm just creating another group so we can talk in peace without people coming in to make personal attacks. People need to know about this theory and I'm going to keep talking about it on HW whether you like it or not. You guys *are* sociopathic and curmudgeons. You attack me personally instead of simply discussing theories. You guys can't have a conversation without making it personal. Had you simply stuck to discussing the theory, there would've been no problem. You started this, not me. So you can stop the gaslighting already. You have zero credibility here.

I just call out bullies when I see them. That understandably makes bullies more angry. I won't sit down and shut up, ever.
Posted 8/16/2022 5:57 PM (GMT -8)

poopydoop said...
I just skimmed it quickly. It's more like a review/overview paper than a scientific study. The 36 patients and the 85% remission in 8 weeks were already published in his paper from 2019. There is no mention of the corresponding remission rate on placebo, unless I missed it. Did he have a control group? Overall, a bit dubious to make claims of a cure on the basis of one patient.

You were already dubious, so colour me shocked. Feel free to disregard his findings and not invest yourself at all in the theory because of petty observations on study design. I've been in remission since March using this theory. I'm a biochem student and the science is not hard to apply to my health.
Posted 8/16/2022 6:08 PM (GMT -8)

steve_rd said...
Note the words 'plausible' and 'potential' VanQuack....does this fit into your comment of "root cause of UC has been identified"....maybe the big pharma dudes got to the paper beforehand and edited it

There's probably hundreds, if not thousands, of "root causes." There's hundreds of genes involved with IBD (some associated only with UC or Crohn's, others with both), plus there's hundreds of possible environmental causes, and an untold number of interactions of genes, the environment and the microbiome. That's why something which works miracles for one patient in an n=1 study never succeeds in scaling up to larger numbers of patients.
Posted 8/16/2022 6:10 PM (GMT -8)

NiceCupOfTea said...
There's probably hundreds, if not thousands, of "root causes."

What evidence do you have to support this claim?
Posted 8/16/2022 6:22 PM (GMT -8)
NCOT!!! Good to see you!!
Posted 8/16/2022 6:24 PM (GMT -8)
VJ -- I started nothing. On the other thread I wasn't even talking to you when you got mad and told me to stay out of "your" thread.
Posted 8/16/2022 6:29 PM (GMT -8)

CCinPA said...
NCOT!!! Good to see you!!

Thank you! Likewise :p
Posted 8/16/2022 6:44 PM (GMT -8)

waxmoth said...
Vitamin E mentioned in the discussion was not something I had used unless it is naturally present in one of the interventions. I did a bit of reading to see what would be the best supplement and it appears that delta Tocotrienol may be more effective for UC than alpha Tocopherol which seems to be the most common form ( the former is more easily absorbed by the gut mucosa).

That's really interesting waxmoth, please keep us updated on what you are using and any results. Are you planning to use as an enema or oral supplement?

I just checked the composition of my vitamin E. I have two types. One is mostly alpha-tocopherol and the other is a mixed tocopherol with all four types present (alpha, beta, gamma and delta).
Posted 8/16/2022 7:56 PM (GMT -8)
I've read the study twice now. Incredibly well researched and seems to answer so many questions including why smoking helps, exactly how mesalamine is working, why UC starts in rectum and works its way up, etc.

Its just a shame that the only oral component is completely unavailable. RDLA seems to be an incredibly unique and potent tool for intera-cellular and extra-cellular antioxidant support.
Posted 8/16/2022 9:11 PM (GMT -8)
Van Jordan, please quit picking fights and being hostile. I have noticed. I won’t allow it much longer.
Posted 8/17/2022 12:22 AM (GMT -8)
I’m just wondering for those who think it’s quack science. What is pravdas motive? There doesn’t seem to be any . His protocol is free for everyone to trial with nothing to lose?
Posted 8/17/2022 2:43 AM (GMT -8)

VanJordan said...

You were already dubious, so colour me shocked. Feel free to disregard his findings and not invest yourself at all in the theory because of petty observations on study design. I've been in remission since March using this theory. I'm a biochem student and the science is not hard to apply to my health.


These are not petty observations. Treatment efficacy is overestimated in unblinded studies. That's why standard medical trials involve randomization and blinding. Most clinical trials also follow up on patients for longer than 8 weeks (usually 1 year...).

There's nothing wrong with papers based on case studies as opposed to large scale trials. The problem comes in extrapolating the results from a very small number of patients, or 1 patient, and then making grandiose claims about cures.

One other thing, less important. I read more abour the "refractory " patient of 39 years who is discussed in pravda's 2020 paper. It says "Over the years, the patient received various forms and combinations of oral and rectal 5-aminosalicylic acid (enema and suppository), rectal steroid preparations in addition to immunosuppressive agents (6-mercaptopurine, oral steroids)". In other words, he never tried biologics. Describing him as refractory would be appropriate 20 years ago, but not today. As I understand from the paper, they have no data points between the first study and 12 years later. This makes it hard to know what his UC has done in the intervening time.
Posted 8/17/2022 4:07 AM (GMT -8)
Equally VJ....what evidence do you have to support the claim you have made many many times on here that "pravda has discovered the root cause of UC"....you have absolutely zero evidence and when pressed on this matter you will insult people so as to move attention away from the fact.

If Pravda has discovered the root cause of UC then show us proof. If you cannot then be a man (or a woman) and move back from this silly statement.
Posted 8/17/2022 4:13 AM (GMT -8)
I don't really get it. Why are some of you people that offended with the studies of Dr. Pravda?
I mean, it might not be the holy grail, which cures all of us, but eventually, it might be one more important step into the right direction. Don't we all want this disease to be studied from all perspectives, so it can be better understood? Even when those studies will be proven to be unsuccessful, we will still be wiser, because we can outrule some more aspects. Aren't we all in the same boat? Why do people react with hatred on a person, who studies our disease?
Posted 8/17/2022 4:29 AM (GMT -8)

Theanxiousaries said...
I’m just wondering for those who think it’s quack science. What is pravdas motive? There doesn’t seem to be any . His protocol is free for everyone to trial with nothing to lose?

That's a good question. I could only guess so I won't (it wouldn't be flattering and only guesses). His protocol is not really free ... it costs a lot of money for all those supplements that are not covered by insurance. But if you want to do it up to you. I don't think antioxidants are bad for you. Just stay in touch with your doctor and get regular check ups. I have seen members here get seriously ill or even die because devotion to alternatives that either only masked symptoms or didn't work ... not saying that is the case with this protocol ... just be cautious and most of all ... find your way to health.
Posted 8/17/2022 4:33 AM (GMT -8)
I don’t know who moderates this forum but it seems very strange to me that someone posts about a different approach to an awful disease that has given them at least some promising initial results and is being actively researched by a dr who has managed to get a paper published in a credible peer reviewed journal and is met with a ton of hate. Even the trolls seem to be admitting their goal is to ridicule but they justify it as funny. I don’t find it funny. I hate this disease. I want to hear from anyone who has found something that works for them especially if they are a severe and refractory case. I don’t see VJ trying to sell anything or similar that might call his motivation into question. I am concerned the hostility that has been tolerated might discourage someone else from contributing. Of course Pravda hasn’t produced a gold standard RCT yet, that’s not how research works, you start small and build up. Look at the map vaccine trials in London- years to get to current phase 2 efforts. There will always be trolls but surely the job of the moderator is to keep the forum to its original purpose- support.
Posted 8/17/2022 4:37 AM (GMT -8)

Pinocchio said...
I don't really get it. Why are some of you people that offended with the studies of Dr. Pravda?
I mean, it might not be the holy grail, which cures all of us, but eventually, it might be one more important step into the right direction. Don't we all want this disease to be studied from all perspectives, so it can be better understood? Even when those studies will be proven to be unsuccessful, we will still be wiser, because we can outrule some more aspects. Aren't we all in the same boat? Why do people react with hatred on a person, who studies our disease?

I don't think it's hatred to point out discrepancies in studies/papers and to question the validity of the claims made. Talk about antioxidants is not new ... I first learned about them in the early 90s. If you want to try this then I hope it works for you, but if it doesn't do not be afraid of more traditional treatments. That's all I (and others) keep saying.
Posted 8/17/2022 4:39 AM (GMT -8)
There are quacks like Pravda all over science and especially medicine as they will offer cures with seemingly minimal effort and lifestyle changes. The week minded will jump on these. There are some who use Youtube as a platform....im hesitant about naming names here....again they are not real MD doctors...some are simply chiropractors....but with their following, support and the services and products they offer their net annual income can get in the hundreds of thousands.....again nothing new....all areas of science are litered with this.

Don't you think that IBD is thoroughly researched for decades and if there was some generic link to Pravdas methods that other people, far more intelligent than pravda (comes across by the way he writes his sub standard paper in a sub standard journal) would have realised this and we'd all be paying big bucks for these services now to help cure our disease.

People always want to believe the impossible....the earth is flat, elvis isnt dead, that yankees are the best team in baseball!!!!.....but it is sad to see this platform being used by such pseudo-science and it is sad how good minded ppl are driven to believe in such myth because of a few false claims
Posted 8/17/2022 4:45 AM (GMT -8)
I'm not offended. It is however being presented as the holy grail. Pravda has a Facebook page called "Curing ulcerative colitis". Pravda has a LinkedIn page where he denigrates other doctors and experts in the field, and it's done in a way which would especially appeal to those who are desperate to find a cure for this terrible disease and who don't know enough about how scientific research works. This is not professional behaviour.

It's hard to trust the research of someone who behaves unprofessionally.

His latest paper is easy for a non specialist to read. There are other papers on redox treatments for UC in reputable journals and they are much more technical and harder for a non specialist to follow. What I have gleaned from them as a non specialist is that there are multiple pathways to inflammation, and in addition to the difficulty of measuring which pathway is relevant for an individual, it means that therapy would have to be individualised for the patients, i.e. there is not a one size fits all solution.

Post Edited (poopydoop) : 8/17/2022 5:54:58 AM (GMT-7)

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