Van Jordan/Dr. Pravda (antioxidant method

It is still a good theory and probably close to correct. I know that before my sons UC onset he had
sulfur farts that could clear a room,cant remember if I had them or not. Anyway hydrogen sulfide, nitric oxides,
and hydrogen peroxide are a bad mix.
Oldmike

poopydoop said...
Of course meds and alternatives are not mutually exclusive... but if you start both at around the same time and get better then you have no idea which one is helping you. Therefore,it is sensible to try one thing at a time (I've even said the same thing on threads where people are thinking of adding meds to their meds.

And if someone says look this protocol is working for me... but fails to mention they started meds around the same time.... that is not really honest....to themselves

I think this is a common misconception about radical induction theory. Maybe some people just aren't reading the research. There truly seems to be a Dunning–Kruger effect going on here. Had anyone visited page 4 of this thread, they'd be guided to a link that includes 303 citations, and I wouldn't have needed to post them again on page 7. Though apparently it doesn't matter, because even after being asked to provide sources on demand, people will still find reasons why they're "likely" invalid (without providing their own sources...go figure).

As far as treatment is concerned, it involves "meds". Despite what other members have teasingly said...

kyle_dn said...
Oh no....they will be adding onions now to pravda's enemas

...these aren't onion enemas. You cannot compound a mesalamine, sodium butyrate, sodium cromolyn, and budesonide enema without a prescription, at least where I live. It's also extremely difficult to source R-dihydrolipoic acid, though it currently treats diabetic neuropathy in some places.

That being said, there is such a thing called off-label use. For example, I have a relative that's prescribed low dose naltrexone (an alcohol/drug abuse drug) for its anti-inflammatory properties.

The reason supplements and alternatives are being mentioned is because the process of patenting treatment, marketing it to a pharmaceutical company like AbbVie, getting them to sponsor the treatment, getting the WHO to add all of the ingredients to the list of essential medications, adding it to insurance drug formularies etc. is probably a lengthy process, and a former member here happened to have good information on the chemistry involved and how to possibly get some semblance of partial application.

You should also understand how lifestyle changes impact ulcerative colitis, so any discussion on that shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone. Some of the critics here are already taking dietary supplements as part of a lifestyle change.

It's not difficult to understand, though, I work with the general public and am not particularly surprised by some of the comments I'm reading. I'm not here to convince anyone, especially if you're comfortable with your long-term prognosis and treatment. That's great. The dissenting members have mostly moved on, much to the appreciation of a lot of you. I'm mostly here still because Old Mike adds valuable information to the relevant topic.

Thanks LowLead....those dissenting members as you call them will not be missed. No need to update us on the issue.

Post Edited (kyle_dn) : 8/22/2022 4:24:18 PM (GMT-7)

Lowlead... my post was in response to TAA's comment about trying alternatives and medications together. It was not specific to radical induction theory.

As for referring to the paper with 303 references...I assume you mean pravdas paper....most of us have read that and been underwhelmed... for the reasons explained in our earlier posts. It's written in a simple style accessible to non specialists, rather than a technical piece for specialists.

Post Edited (poopydoop) : 8/22/2022 7:00:16 PM (GMT-7)

poopydoop said...
Lowlead... my post was in response to TAA's comment about trying alternatives and medications together. It was not specific to radical induction theory.

I understand. My reply is generalized since I'm seeing people say this is a Dr. Pravda/VanJordan protocol, akin to the autoimmune protocol diet, or some other naturopathic approach. It's not medicine versus alternatives. It's not...whatever attempt at sarcasm this was:

steve_rd said...
I'll take a blueberry and some vit C!!!!

It's just medicine. A growing paradigm shift that has been substantiated here by the countless amounts of articles posted shows preventing translocation of bacteria into the sterile subjacent lamina propria will stop inflammation at the source, which has the potential to be significantly more powerful than trying to dam up inflammation after it's started, with a lower risk factor than inhibiting your TNF. In order to do this, the colon needs time to heal, mitochondrial heteroplasmy needs to be stopped, and systemic pre-inflammatory markers need to be reduced, the latter of which can be done via oral drug(s).

This is no different than individuals that get UC under control with rectral treatment, then take an oral maintenance medication. Somehow, probably through a combination of laziness and pseudo-skepticism, it's being construed as medicine versus the Dr. Pravda protocol with special interests, when it's clearly not.

It doesn't cost $6000 a month outside the US

TAA, I think what quincy was saying and what I was saying as well is that over the year you have had a lot of support on HW to your queries. You have had a lot of help, input and suggestions. There was even one time when you wrote complaining that no member was replying to your Entyvio query. It is also important to give back, to help and support others. And constantly writing because other members disagree with your view points doesn't do you much service. Writing a post telling someone that you are putting them on ignore is a little silly.

Imagine being a new member and told you ask too many questions on a support forum or being told my anxiety is my biggest problem when my user name is TheAnxiousaries.. clearly I’m aware of my anxiety. The only ppl worthy of respect on this forum are those who a deemed veterans because they have suffered longer. I’m not here to give support. Im a new member who was here for support! How can I offer support to others yet? How rude to suggest I give to others when I can’t even help myself! FYI I have given support where I could.. sorry you haven’t followed that post as closely. I appreciate those who helped me!! I know who they are. I’ve thanked them for everything so don’t make out I’m unappreciative. I’m directing this at “Veteran” members who think they’re above trivial questions from Newbies but see nothing wrong with causing conflict and will come back every day for it. I’m on entyvio warriors and Everyone on their is lovely and extremely supportive. This forum is toxic

I had sent Pravda's paper to my GI and had my appt with him this morning. I hadn't given him any indication of my thoughts on it ... just asked for his thoughts. This was a telephone appt so he couldn't see my body language either. This is was he said:

1) it was a poorly written paper in a sub par journal
2) there was no control group in the study Pravda did with his patients
3) when Pravda scoped the patients he only did a flex sig so he wouldn't have been able to see beyond the left side which is all the further the special enemas reached leaving questions about the health of the entire colon in the patients who had pancolitis. My doc said he's not surprised the left side of the colon looked good with the meds that are in the enema. [note -- my doc was referring to the initial 36 patients -- not the 1 patient Pravda said he did a follow up colonoscopy years later]
4) most of the paper was basically a science class with no real therapeutic value
5) thought the paper was just a marketing gimmick to sell Pravda's proprietary enemas and oral treatment
6) if there was anything of substance to the treatment a pharmaceutical company would have snatched it up by now
7) it's not likely harmful but it's not the cutting edge of a new path in treatments for UC and is definitely not a "cure" based on the information that was provided

When he was done speaking I told him I was happy because if he had said it was brilliant I would have had to look for a new doctor -- he lol'd at that

I know this will likely make people angry -- just reporting what he told me.

I think what most “skeptics” here have been trying to say is just to urge caution in saying “this is THE root cause and THE solution” when nothing has been proved yet. All it takes is inserting a “possible” or “potential “ in there and that makes alll the difference. I’m all for finding a simple solution for UC. I hope like hell there is one. Lots of times skepticism comes from a place of years and years of suffering and having hope dashed time and again. Directing tirades against others for their skepticism is misplaced. Rudeness is not ever called for and it’s happened on both sides.

Post Edited (FlowersGal) : 8/23/2022 5:06:51 PM (GMT-7)

Theanxiousaries said...
...

You're fine. There's no need to try and score enough points in order to receive support from anyone. You can always email moderators directly if you feel singled out...or...create an entire "A question for mods" thread I suppose.

CCinPA said...
if he had said it was brilliant I would have had to look for a new doctor

Sounds like you'd made your mind up before even consulting with your physician. I do question why he thinks openly published treatment guidance that can be compounded today, without consulting Dr. Pravda, is proprietary. I'm also not sure if a week is fast enough for a pharmaceutical company to reach out to Dr. Pravda and sponsor clinical trials. I will say I'm very fortunate to have patient guided treatment and to have the ability to take charge of my health. My doctors are still consulting with peers on what I've sent over, but I'm confident I'll be able to give this a shot and see how I do.

damo123 said...
[something inflammatory]

Those are bold words coming from someone who wasn't even aware of the independent studies referenced in Dr. Pravda's article until just the last page of this thread. Basically confirming Theanxiousaries's claims, and my suspicions that people either can't read, or don't want to.

You also turned the very essence of one of my posts, a call for better outcomes in ulcerative colitis patients, into an...

damo123 said...
argument

...which I've already said I'm not going to take part in.

The problem with a war on an idea is it'll never end. Are the studies too old, or is this all a fad? One side of your arguments is refuted, so you paradoxically push back a different way. I feel sorry for new members that encounter this echo chamber. I was fortunate enough to find a thread indexed on Google that contained useful contributions from mature folks, rather than these remarks from morally questionable people.

poopydoop said...
The only morally questionable thing I've seen in this thread is a doctor who promotes himself

You mean like Dr. Crohn? You’ve already mentioned RIT articles that weren’t done by doctors named Jay Pravda. This is the circular argument I’m talking about. Just pretend your doctor recommends trying a cocktail of different drugs, every time Pravda is mentioned. It’ll save you from needing to read that name again.