Natural protection

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lanab
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 136
   Posted 11/18/2011 4:31 AM (GMT -6)   
I read several articles that the body has some sort of protection for the esophagus when it's being attacked by acid in the long run....

According to many articles this is not even mentioned and they all promote PPIs and H2s.

What's the chance of healing GERD naturally?

I took Nexium for 4 days, i couldn't stand it, the side-effects was horrible as it made my current neurological problems after i had Shingles 4 years ago in half on my head even worse, it was like for each day i took the pill the nerves got more and more irritated so i stopped but it took 3 days to recover the head back to normal.

I felt pretty good with my GERD and noticed Nexium is getting out of your system slowly, one pill actually lasts more than 24hr, my doctor told me it lasts about 48hrs.

Yesterday i felt good for the first tiem with slight soar throat and the gastritis was gone, i got my apetite back and bought a chicken, half chicken, and some sallad without dressing and some potato sallad, after i ate it i experencied the worse GERD in a long time, it was like coming back hard and had extremely soar throat and the gastritis was back again, i couldn't sleep without having to swallow all the time to ease the soar throat feeling.

It's better now but i really don't know how to fix this problem, i had GERD 20 years ago and was treated on Zantac, which my nerves doesn't accept either today, and i healed after 6 months treatment losing weight as my diagnose was that i was too fat which pushed the whole thing up letting the valve be open.

Due to my neurogical problems after Shingles it seems the anti-acid suppression pills trigger it, i really don't know how to proceed anymore.

Can GERD heal by itself? what did they do 200 years ago when all these pills weren't available and suffered from GERD?

mudmagnetmum
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1604
   Posted 11/18/2011 4:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi there

GERD tends to need us to be very proactive - it needs a lot of management and doesn't tend to go without any intervention. If the original cause is alcoholism or drug induced (NSAIDs for example) or due to a period of unusually high stress, then it may resolve without a lot of help. If you are very very overweight and lose weight, or have a "Homer Simpson diet" and change that, then of course things may improve on their own. But for many of us we already have tackled weight and lifestyle issues and still the GERD rattles on.

Have you looked into St John's Wort - I think it's supposed to be useful for post-herpetic (shingles) pain. It might be worth a try, monitoring your symptoms carefully and withdrawing at the first sign of trouble. It's one of those things that can be a good thing or a bad thing, but it has proven efficacy for wound healing and there is definite evidence that it reduces neuropathic pain - see
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006295209010740

You may want to talk to your doctor about trying it - you have to be careful if you are on any other medication as it can (but not necessarily) reduce the half life of some drugs (making them less effective).

I do sympathise - I had a dental abscess (undetected on my wisdom tooth) that lead me to have facial neuralgia (like a trigeminal neuralgia) that persisted LONG after the tooth had been discovered and removed. It is the worst type of pain and led to one of the lowest points in my life!

There may be other pain treatments that you can pursue - you could ask to be referred to a neurologist and discuss other options. If you can stand it, it may also be worth trying different ppis - I have less side effects (not none but way less!) on Lansoprazole than on Nexium - I had paraesthesia of my fingers (tingling/numbness) on Nexium.

I would look into St John's wort and have a discussion with your doctor regarding different options for treating the neuropathic pain and a different ppi - I may be wrong, but I think Nexium has a higher side effect profile than other ppis. But we are all different - you may yet find some options that work for you.

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mudmagnetmum
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1604
   Posted 11/18/2011 5:06 AM (GMT -6)   
PS: Lansoprazole is Prevacid in the States!
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

lanab
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 136
   Posted 11/18/2011 7:34 AM (GMT -6)   
Ok thanks, will look into that.

My GERD is worsening right now.

It's so strange that both PPIs and H2s aggrevates the nervers in my head, i also got itching rash on my body and it gets worse for each day i take it.

I have no control of this right now, i could have taken any anti-acid pill i could control the situation better.

My doctor told me that she doesn't recommend to do surgery as there is a big chance it will come back 1 year later and i don't want surgery either, no way i want to change things inside.

My neurologist gave me anti-histamin pills to take control of the rash but it doesn't get better either and they aggrevate the nerves as well.

My shingle situation i got in year 2006 was fine from 2010 and forward until i had to take antibiotics Ciprofloxacin for 3 weeks against UVI, 2 weeks in to it the rash started and after since it has all come back so i don't know if it's the ciprofloxacin that caused all this from the start as i took another cheap PPI during the same time, it all started 2 weeks after so i stopped to not worsen it.

How did they solve this in the old times before H2s and PPIs were available? they died eventually?

Post Edited (lanab) : 11/18/2011 5:43:13 AM (GMT-7)


bcfromfl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 417
   Posted 11/18/2011 10:01 AM (GMT -6)   
I know how you feel about the PPIs -- I've tried all of them, hoping to find one that didn't cause the massive headaches.  I seem to tolerate Nexium the best, although I have to stop and start every couple of days to manage the headache.
 
I also understand completely your feelings about surgery.  I felt the same way, and still do.  I conceded to go through with the TIF, since it seemed relatively benign as compared with the more radical laparascopic procedures. 
 
I've seen many doctors as I've tried to find help/relief, and I've found that many GI doctors are very resistant to the idea of surgery...which isn't helpful if you're really suffering, and medication either doesn't work or you can't tolerate them.  GI doctors seem to like to write prescriptions and do colonoscopies, and not much else.
 
You need to find a doctor who is willing to look at your symptoms realistically, and make recommendations while considering the impact this condition is having on your life.  Having a doctor recommend not to have surgery, while the reflux is impacting you and your life -- without other good options -- is not helpful.
 
Best of luck!
 
-Bruce

stkitt
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 32602
   Posted 11/18/2011 10:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) was recognized as a clinical entity in the mid 1930s and now is the most prevalent upper gastrointestinal (GI) disorder in clinical practice.
 
I do not know how the sx were treated prior to this time but I suspect if you searched you may find some answers as to how these sx were treated prior to the 1930s.
 
Kindly,
Kitt
~~Kitt~~
Moderator: Anxiety, Osteoarthritis,
GERD/Heartburn and Heart/Cardiovascular Disease.

www.healingwell.com

"only as high as I reach can I grow, only as far as I seek can I go, only as deep as I look can I see, only as much as I dream can I be"

bcfromfl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 417
   Posted 11/18/2011 10:58 AM (GMT -6)   
I just re-read your original post, and realized I meant to address your question about healing GERD naturally.
 
The confusing thing about herbal remedies, is that they are helpful in alleviating conditions and symptoms for a variety of infections and complaints.  Since they are readily available, and there is a lot of anecdotal information available, many people utilize them as a first effort to heal without seeing a doctor.
 
Further compounding the issue is that some herbal remedies are helpful as anatacids, or soothing the burning caused by excess acid or periodic heartburn.  The thing one must realize, though, is that there is a difference between "heartburn" and "GERD/LPR".  Everyone has episodes of reflux, but the esophagus is generally tough enough to handle occasional spikes.  Herbal/natural remedies are usually sufficient to soothe or neutralize occasional problems.
 
But when someone has been diagnosed with GERD/LPR, it's important to remember that this is a condition brought on by a physiological change in the musculature of the upper GI system.  No longer can significant, long-term relief be found through natural means.  Once it appears, GERD is a life-long condition that, even after radical surgery, requires management and behavior modifications.
 
Unless a patient is the wonderful recipient of miraculous intervention by the Grace of God (and I don't discount this as a possibility), GERD must be considered permanent, beyond the reach of simple remedies to "heal". 
 
-Bruce

mudmagnetmum
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1604
   Posted 11/18/2011 11:16 AM (GMT -6)   
If I had to accept GERD as a lifelong ailment, given that symptom control is poor, and surgery is not an option, I would give up all hope of ever leading a life that had a any quality to it. Natural remedies offer hope and I have had great success with them in the past.

As for physiological change, many of us have nothing on our scopes or tests that would account for the severity of the symptoms we collectively have, so we therefore continue to look for solutions everywhere we can.

Please note that many of us here on healingwell have battled with GERD for quite some time and struggle with the social, emotional and psychological aspects of this disease. Some of us ARE helped by natural agents and some of us have responded well to alternative diet methods.

Here on Healingwell we enjoy the support of our fellow sufferers as we tackle this disease by whatever means we can, natural or otherwise. I feel your 'abandon all hope' message does little to raise morale and shows a clear bias against the use of natural treatments in GERD.

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

Post Edited (mudmagnetmum) : 11/18/2011 9:20:10 AM (GMT-7)


bcfromfl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 417
   Posted 11/18/2011 11:41 AM (GMT -6)   
My apologies, as I did not intend for my comments to be taken as "abandon all hope".
 
I, too, have struggled with the social, emotional, and psychological aspects of the disease that you mention.  I have also been extremely frustrated with the lack of help from the medical community, and the considerable abundance of "false hopes" offered ad nauseum on the internet.
 
My concern is that many sufferers get sidetracked by certain homeopathic remedies, and don't seek medical attention when that course of action may very well be warranted.  This is exactly what happened to me.
 
The discussion of GERD seems to digress into various stages of the disease, and even into areas where the disease is not indicated.  When all these are mixed together into a messageboard such as this, comments such as mine perhaps seem extreme when someone is actually wanting suggestions for mild heartburn relief.
 
I tried to organize my thoughts in my post to take into consideration all stages of symptoms, and offer a "plan of attack" for someone...with also a dose of realistic expectations.  I have used natural remedies myself, as have many others with similar results.  They do have a place in the management of reflux...with caveats.
 
My intention is to offer support for all here, and I apologize if my comments are not helpful.  I find this community a welcome respite from the general solitude of this condition.
 
-Bruce

lanab
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 136
   Posted 11/18/2011 11:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Nice of you all contributing with facts about this condition.

I want to also ask if you know how long i can go with this without the whole esophagus taking damage, some say years, i have constant soar throat and gastritis with varying intense, i ate fish and rice today and my stomach could handle that without too much acid schock

I am getting an appointment with a GI specialist on Monday as well.

How does Asian doctors treat GERD?

bcfromfl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 417
   Posted 11/18/2011 12:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Rice is good!  My favorite is jasmine rice.
 
I noted that you say your GERD is getting worse.  I'm glad you're going to see a GI on Monday.
 
There are so many variables with respect to esophageal damage.  The degree of reflux, length of time condition has been present, individual variances in thickness of esophagus, etc.  As you say, someone may go years, while another individual may have another experience.  When you say sore throat, this indicates LPR, which is a special complication of GERD. 
 
Since there is a discussion of natural remedies here, and you ARE also seeking medical attention, I will offer something else you may not have heard of, and I had some success with.  It's Manuka honey.  (I was a professional singer before GERD, and have used this for a long time.)  It has strong anti-fungal anti-bacterial properties, and may offer some help with gastric complaints, such as gastritis.  I can tell you this for certain: I use a 1/4 tsp. most evenings, and after I started this regimen, the plaque on my teeth virtually disappeared.  My dental hygienist noticed this, as I used to have a real problem with this.  This has also been replicated with a friend I recommended this to as well.
 
Manuka hasn't been on the market long enough for there to be a good standard for quality.  Wedderspoon, available through Amazon, is the best.  Y.S. Bee Farms, through The Vitamin Shoppe, has quality control issues.
 
Your question about how reflux is treated in Asia is interesting, although I've never run across anything specific here.
 
Best wishes!
 
-Bruce

lanab
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 136
   Posted 11/18/2011 1:57 PM (GMT -6)   
I am using this now, it has helped me before when i was free from GERD and had other stomach problems, it's really a magic product in some way as it contains millions of good bacterias for the stomach, it's developed by some Swedish scientists.

I drank one glas tonight and felt better for one hour

http://www.proviva.com/en/Magens-basta-van/

mudmagnetmum
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1604
   Posted 11/18/2011 3:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Bruce, and I do welcome you to the forum - stick around and get to know us - we're all up the same creek, but in a fair variety of boats!

GERD isn't the most painful thing I've had these last few years, but it's certainly the biggest nuisance and the thought of it never ending drags me down. I apologise if I am overly sensitive on that score. I try to find ways to stay hopeful...........

I don't think there's many of us around here with mild heartburn - I think I'd risk a glass of red wine if that was the only consequence! I agree with what you say about the medical community - they give you the drugs and that's that. If you're bad enough for surgery then they start you on that route, but there's quite a few of us who just aren't bad enough for surgery but whose symptoms are very irritating, despite the drugs, or for whom the drugs are a trade off with other symptoms (as you found.......).

I've had a go with Manuka honey - it's quite soothing but hasn't made any difference to my symptoms.

There is the danger of getting side tracked yes, and the forum can work as a good safety net (so long as people are being truthful about their symptoms) in that if you ARE side tracked, other members can nudge you back to your GP/PCP - and the moderators do a FANTASTIC job in that respect too.

We also have the issue of matching symptoms to actual pathology - my symptoms are completely disproportionate to the tiny amount of pathology - hence the lack of excitement from the medical profession. Conversely, you may hear of someone who thought they were doing great, only to find their pathology has progressed....... GERD just somehow doesn't play by the rules.

There are a few of us who keep researching natural approaches, which we hope will help. We're not expecting to find miracle cures or even replacements for ppis, but we just keep looking for things that might bridge the gap between suffering and adequate symptom control. I'm sure you'll soon meet Mock Turtle and Acidrefluxman, and ppiless, and our lovely moderators. Whenever we find interesting research, drugs or natural agents, we try to post the link to the research and have a discussion about it - that's something that helps us to stay hopeful too.

I'm sorry that your GERD has impacted on your singing career - you have something in common with our member Sunbeam there. Also, you may be interested in her experiences with the Kaufman diet.

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma

mudmagnetmum
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2011
Total Posts : 1604
   Posted 11/18/2011 3:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Lanab

Now here's a natural remedy I have to vouch for and it happened by accident. I too had awful itching and head to toe dermatitis whilst taking ppis. If I stopped them it went, but then my stomach was dreadful, so I kept trying different ppis. I was very stuck - I was told I was not a candidate for surgery and to put up with the drugs. But the itching also made life unbearable. By coincidence, I read that olive oil, swallowed daily, was good for gastritis. I'll try anything (even though most things make me worse .......) - so i tried taking 1 teaspoon per day of extra virgin cold pressed olive oil every morning. Nothing whatsoever happened stomach wise, but by day 5 I had completely clear skin!! I still take it - it allows me to tolerate the drugs - if I miss a few days the itching comes back!

Olive oil is high in omega 9 (which your body assembles from omega 3 and omega 6) and also polyphenols (which are powerful antioxidants). I'm not sure which of these attributes relieves my skin - but it does!

Have you had a gastroscopy recently? Good luck with your appointment - and do chase up some treatment for the neuropathic pain separately too!

MMM

MMM
New stuff: GERD. Interstitial Cystitis
Lifelong stuff: Food allergies, eczema, asthma
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