Is the Nissen can be undo ?!!!

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soliver38
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 140
   Posted 12/25/2011 11:21 AM (GMT -6)   
I want to know if Nissen can be undo if it doesnt work properly,causing damage to the esophagus ?

opnwhl4
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 4961
   Posted 12/25/2011 6:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Soliver-

It can be undone, but it's usually hard to get a surgeon to do it.

Take care,
Bill
opnwhl4
Moderator: GERD/Heartburn
Nissen 6/06 and 5/09
#3 on 8/24/11

soliver38
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 140
   Posted 12/26/2011 12:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Bill dont you think that my surgeon who did it that he might refuse ,if he really knows that i am feelong very bad?

opnwhl4
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 4961
   Posted 12/26/2011 1:07 PM (GMT -6)   
It's hard to say as surgeons have varying opinions on reversing this surgery. All you can do is ask your surgeon and see what he says.

Take care,
Bill
opnwhl4
Moderator: GERD/Heartburn
Nissen 6/06 and 5/09
#3 on 8/24/11

soliver38
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 140
   Posted 12/27/2011 6:20 AM (GMT -6)   
BILL ...my surgeon is ok to undo nisssen if i still feeling bad after amost 10 days.thw wrap was no too tight but ithe problem is in esophagal reflux and i think the problem is in the mecanism .thank you anywat

dencha
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Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 7188
   Posted 12/27/2011 11:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Soliver,
When do you see your surgeon again?  What were your symptoms that led you to surgery?
Hope you're having a good day today.
Denise

badbrewin
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 24
   Posted 12/27/2011 1:24 PM (GMT -6)   
Soliver,
10 days post op is way too early to be thinking the surgery went wrong. I had mine 5 weeks ago today and was totally freaked out when I was getting heartburn 4 days after the surgery, especially being on a liquid diet. I've had some reflux through the first 4 weeks and things have taken a turn for the better in the last 7-8 days. I've been eating quite well and heartburn has been practically nil.

It's getting better every day from here on in (for me at least), but you shouldn't be panicking after 10 days. It takes time to heal and for the swelling to go down, plus it could take over a month for the rebound effect of PPIs to subside.

Give it at least 6-8 weeks before getting anything undone.

soliver38
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 140
   Posted 12/27/2011 2:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Badb..Dencha..today i had pneumatic dilataion..aand i told him that i have spasm and esophageal reflux .water stay in my esophagus and food making stase.my previous symptoms were only irritated throat.and i was feeling pretty good under ppis.but i decide to stop medication,and my GIsaid to me you dont need that surgery its not indicated for you.but i did it and badely i had esophageal issues and burning and spasm,im getting worth week after week.he gave me today some meds for spasm and told me to come back after 10 days..i knew that the problem was not the wrap but the mechanic did not work.also he gave me the fotos of endoscopy and said its not his fault if i have those issues.i told him i want that op to be undone,and he was ok

dencha
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 7188
   Posted 12/27/2011 9:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Soliver,
Don't be too hard on yourself.  You thought that the surgery would solve your problems.  Just out of curiosity, did you have a manometry before your surgery to check your swallowing reflex?
I wish you all the best!
Denise

soliver38
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 140
   Posted 12/29/2011 10:15 AM (GMT -6)   
Dencha ..before surgery i had no esophagitus nor swalling problems i have had before surgery TOGD that shown normal persitaltism and endoscopy showing my cardia tihgh normally.now i m burning i cant eat i feel 9/10 burning post prandiale i mean after meals..even i cant sleep at nights from my irritation..dilatation was done but i am still suffering...no one can help me

Nal
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 410
   Posted 12/29/2011 10:28 PM (GMT -6)   
I had those symptoms too till about day 16. I too called my dr and said I wanted it undone. He said not till 3 mos post op. I'm over 20 days now and I feel so much better. When is your unwrap scheduled for?
I think I have everything under the sun! Lyme disease, fibromyalgia, interstitial cystitis, and GERD. Had my sugary dec 8, 2011

Nancy

lanab
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 136
   Posted 12/30/2011 11:47 AM (GMT -6)   
My GI told me after endoscopy he can tighten the valve, eg surgery, i told him no way i am letting them modify anything and i seem to be doing fine anyway, my situation is stabilized after 3 months of acid nightmare, i get gastritis and soar throat but nothing like before.

The doctors don't tell you that the surgery needs to be redone every 3-4 years, after surgery you have no turning back, that's why i refuse it.

Reading all posts on this forum many ppl have so many new problems after these kind of surgeries, the doctor never informs about the backside of it.

Post Edited (lanab) : 12/30/2011 9:50:46 AM (GMT-7)


opnwhl4
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 4961
   Posted 12/30/2011 12:28 PM (GMT -6)   
lanab-

I am curious as to where you have heard the nissen needs redone every 3 to 4 years? I have always been told 10 plus years by my surgeons. I admit I have had 3 in 5 years, but not for fault of the nissen itself. My first was done incorrectly and I finally was able to get it redone correctly after 3 years. My redo was working perfectly, but was torn apart from the esophagus stent they had to put in place to help heal the repaired tear in my esophagus following an EGD. My last surgeon has told me he believes this should last 10 to 15 years.

My first surgeon wasn't very experienced with this surgery, but did warn me of possible dysphagia or reflux during the first few months until things healed completely. All 3 surgeons had me on liquids the first week and told me to slowly advance my diet with soft foods as I felt I was able and to avoid solid meats and soft bread for the first 12 weeks or so.

I do agree that a lot of surgeons may not fully understand the complete issues with recovery from this surgery. I believe this is because they haven't gone through this themselves and may also believe this recovery to be similar to most other lap surgeries where something is removed verses rebuilt.

Take care,
Bill
opnwhl4
Moderator: GERD/Heartburn
Nissen 6/06 and 5/09
#3 on 8/24/11

soliver38
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 140
   Posted 12/30/2011 1:05 PM (GMT -6)   
opnwhl4 said...
lanab-

I am curious as to where you have heard the nissen needs redone every 3 to 4 years? I have always been told 10 plus years by my surgeons. I admit I have had 3 in 5 years, but not for fault of the nissen itself. My first was done incorrectly and I finally was able to get it redone correctly after 3 years. My redo was working perfectly, but was torn apart from the esophagus stent they had to put in place to help heal the repaired tear in my esophagus following an EGD. My last surgeon has told me he believes this should last 10 to 15 years.

My first surgeon wasn't very experienced with this surgery, but did warn me of possible dysphagia or reflux during the first few months until things healed completely. All 3 surgeons had me on liquids the first week and told me to slowly advance my diet with soft foods as I felt I was able and to avoid solid meats and soft bread for the first 12 weeks or so.

I do agree that a lot of surgeons may not fully understand the complete issues with recovery from this surgery. I believe this is because they haven't gone through this themselves and may also believe this recovery to be similar to most other lap surgeries where something is removed verses rebuilt.

Take care, Bill its true that nissen may last 3 years sometimes less.60$have to take meds after 20 months .those informations are well known.,but now as things are done all i have to do is waiting ,if i still alive to undo this surgery,because every day i am suffering from burning throat and esophagus
Bill

Cindy123
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 175
   Posted 12/30/2011 1:21 PM (GMT -6)   
Sliver. I would strongly advice you to give it some time. I was like you. I went to my surgeon after a month and begged him to undo what he did. He said to check with him after three years. He said that it can take anywhere from a few months to a couple of years too fully feel normal again. I am now 11 months into my recovery and I am glad I wasn't as persistent as I was thinking. It gets better but it takes a while and by a while, I mean months. I didn't start to feel better until my seventh month. I used to watch people burp and I used to cringe on the inside.

My cousin just had the surgery a month ago and I watched her eat three small spoonfuls of rice and she started choking The rice wouldnt go down. She started drinking water to get it down. It took her a while. If she drinks too fast it comes right back up My point is you are not alone. Give yourself some more time to see if it gets better. I know you are scared but hang in there. Only you know what you can't live with. My fear is that if you undo the wrap so soon, you might make things worse. Think about it. I had silent reflux and the acid was causing damage to my esophagus, hence my surgery.

I wish you well.

Cindy

dencha
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 7188
   Posted 12/31/2011 12:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Cindy,
Soliver is very lucky to have such great advice.  Bill and Nancy have also provided some great information, advice and support.  It's hard to deal with the recovery--especially if a person tend toward anxiety and worry.  It takes a lot of trust to get through it, don't you think?
I'm so glad you're sticking around the forum and sharing your experience with others!
I hope you have a wonderful New Year!
Stay in touch,
Denise
 
Solvier,
Hang in there...we're all here for you!
 
Best wishes to one and all,
Denise

soliver38
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 140
   Posted 12/31/2011 10:18 AM (GMT -6)   
Nancy Bill Cindy Dencha..you are all of you wonderful,but the pain i feel is so acute specially nothing have change after the first dilataion.another surgeon i show him my barium test said give some time ...but i cannot even drink so just i feel irritation and burning sensation.the first month post op i was 100 times better than now.maybe because my issue starts post surgery...the surgeon said we can try many dilatation..but what if i still have esophageal reflux?!!!also i have read that in case of success this surgery last not more than 3 after that you will need medication again....

Jesper A
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 12/31/2011 11:03 AM (GMT -6)   
All, let's stop referring to rumors.
Of course a Nissen will not need to be redone every three to four years! On the other hand you are right that it is not necessarily an operation that will last a full life span. There is a lot of resources on the internet and if you use them well there is a wealth of information and facts derived from actual studies. One link is this one: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/540684
 
Nissen Fundoplication is an operation that modifies something we use several times a day and will cause some discomfort in the short term, but after 6 – 12 months 86 – 95 % of patients will be relieved of their severe GERD symptoms and live a normal life again.
 
So is it worth it to go through a recovery period of 6 -12 months with and 86-95% chance of a successful op? Well you have to decide for yourself, but using this forum as a reference for how bad a op Nissen Fundoplication is, is wrong and not fair. This is a great forum where people who is seeing complications in their recovery can get help from people whom has gone through this themselves.
 
I wish you all a happy new year and all the best and success with your lives!
Jesper

soliver38
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 140
   Posted 12/31/2011 11:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Jesper A said...
All, let's stop referring to rumors.
Of course a Nissen will not need to be redone every three to four years! On the other hand you are right that it is not necessarily an operation that will last a full life span. There is a lot of resources on the internet and if you use them well there is a wealth of information and facts derived from actual studies. One link is this one: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/540684
Nissen Fundoplication is an operation that modifies something we use several times a day and will cause some discomfort in the short term, but after 6 – 12 months 86 – 95 % of patients will be relieved of their severe GERD symptoms and live a normal life again.

So is it worth it to go through a recovery period of 6 -12 months with and 86-95% chance of a successful op? Well you have to decide for yourself, but using this forum as a reference for how bad a op Nissen Fundoplication is, is wrong and not fair. This is a great forum where people who is seeing complications in their recovery can get help from people whom has gone through this themselves.

I wish you all a happy new year and all the best and success with your lives!
Jesper
It is your opinion we respect it but you cannot say to all do not talk about your issues ,,if they feel badhttp://www.hepatology.ca/1stprincipalsofgastro/z_pdf/FCH_5_04.pdf try to get a look

Post Edited (soliver38) : 12/31/2011 9:33:51 AM (GMT-7)


opnwhl4
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 4961
   Posted 12/31/2011 2:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Soliver-

Jesper A wasn't saying not to talk about any issues people are having. He was simply stating that we shouldn't adhere to rumors. I too have done research as to how long the nissen is expected to last, how many people need to go back on meds and such. In the US surgeons expect this surgery to last about 10 years for successful surgeries. Yes some have to go back on meds and some do not get relief with this surgery, but all the info I have been given by my 3 plus surgeons on this isn't as bad as some think it is. I have read on a few hospital sites that some surgeons are saying 7 years is possibly a more real number verses the 10 year hoped for.
I would expect the number of years that the surgery last for children would be way less because they are still growing. And possibly that number would be 3 to 4 years for sure. Also maybe European surgeons have less expectations for this surgery. I cannot speak of this as I have only researched it for US surgeons. Is you research been directed at European surgeons more than US surgeons? I ask this because you website you linked to was in French.

Take care,
Bill

Please remember we are not here to argue with you, just to help support you and offer what info we have been told by doctors or from our own research. My question to Lanab was not meant to be argumentative, but to find out where that info was from.
opnwhl4
Moderator: GERD/Heartburn
Nissen 6/06 and 5/09
#3 on 8/24/11

soliver38
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 140
   Posted 12/31/2011 3:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Bill you are absolutely right my ref are all europeans also my surgeon who is supposed to be the number one in all europe,but badely i still have bad issues ,some doctors said its due to the wrap others say the mechanism maybe is working bad....many opinions still i had a dilatation before five days i still have the same feeling of irritated esophagus and throat.anyway before undo this nissen i will wait and try more dilatations if needed.

opnwhl4
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 4961
   Posted 12/31/2011 4:24 PM (GMT -6)   
soliver-

You are about 10 to 11 weeks out, right? This is still early in recovery. Sometimes it takes upwards to 6 months or more for everything to settle in. Be careful with having multiple dilations. This is what was thought to have weakened my esophagus and possibly caused the esophageal tear I had on 2/28/11. It tore during an EGD. It is possible the wrap is a bit too tight and may loosen up with time.

Take care,
Bill
opnwhl4
Moderator: GERD/Heartburn
Nissen 6/06 and 5/09
#3 on 8/24/11

dencha
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 7188
   Posted 1/1/2012 1:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Soliver,
I know you are suffering with your recovery, but Jesper and Bill are both trying to keep some perspective in the conversation.  You are having difficulty swallowing, which creates some real and painful problems for you.
 
That said, for many this surgery is a very big improvement in their quality of life.  The recovery can be a challenge, but things get better, and they experience life without abnormal amounts of reflux, which makes their lives much better.
 
I don't know what your problem is, or why you had the surgery.  However, I can say that many are helped by it, as I was.  However long the surgery lasts it's worth the effort.(I also have read that the average is 10 years.  More than one poster her on the forum had their surgery last nearly 20 years) 
 
For many who face constant reflux (or other very uncomfortable and unhealthy side effects--in my case uncontrollable asthma), this surgery is a lifesaver.  I will have a redo gladly whenever it is necessary.  Hopefully my wrap will last quite a while, but when it goes, I'll be very happy to get it done again.  I wouldn't want to go back to the way I was before my surgery.
 
I hope that your symptoms improve very soon, Soliver.  I know how hard this has been.  I'm sure that you will find a resolution very soon. 
Hang in there! We're here for you. 
Denise

Jesper A
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 1/1/2012 12:42 PM (GMT -6)   
soliver38 said...
Jesper A said...
All, let's stop referring to rumors.
Of course a Nissen will not need to be redone every three to four years! On the other hand you are right that it is not necessarily an operation that will last a full life span. There is a lot of resources on the internet and if you use them well there is a wealth of information and facts derived from actual studies. One link is this one: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/540684
Nissen Fundoplication is an operation that modifies something we use several times a day and will cause some discomfort in the short term, but after 6 – 12 months 86 – 95 % of patients will be relieved of their severe GERD symptoms and live a normal life again.

So is it worth it to go through a recovery period of 6 -12 months with and 86-95% chance of a successful op? Well you have to decide for yourself, but using this forum as a reference for how bad a op Nissen Fundoplication is, is wrong and not fair. This is a great forum where people who is seeing complications in their recovery can get help from people whom has gone through this themselves.

I wish you all a happy new year and all the best and success with your lives!
Jesper
It is your opinion we respect it but you cannot say to all do not talk about your issues ,,if they feel badhttp://www.hepatology.ca/1stprincipalsofgastro/z_pdf/FCH_5_04.pdf try to get a look
 

Hi Soliver,

Of course we should talk about our issues, that is what this forum is all about! And thanks to the great people here this is by far the most informative and helpful place to get info about GERD and the methods of surgery. I only wanted to point out that a Nissen Fundoplication has success rate of 86 - 95% and it is not normal to have it redone every three to four years. I am sorry if that could be misunderstood.

 

I have read some parts of the link but I am a bit unsure about what part in particular you want me to read through?

 

All the best,

Jesper


soliver38
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 140
   Posted 1/1/2012 2:10 PM (GMT -6)   
dencha said...
Hi Soliver,I know you are suffering with your recovery, but Jesper and Bill are both trying to keep some perspective in the conversation. You are having difficulty swallowing, which creates some real and painful problems for you.

That said, for many this surgery is a very big improvement in their quality of life. The recovery can be a challenge, but things get better, and they experience life without abnormal amounts of reflux, which makes their lives much better.

I don't know what your problem is, or why you had the surgery. However, I can say that many are helped by it, as I was. However long the surgery lasts it's worth the effort.(I also have read that the average is 10 years. More than one poster her on the forum had their surgery last nearly 20 years)

For many who face constant reflux (or other very uncomfortable and unhealthy side effects--in my case uncontrollable asthma), this surgery is a lifesaver. I will have a redo gladly whenever it is necessary. Hopefully my wrap will last quite a while, but when it goes, I'll be very happy to get it done again. I wouldn't want to go back to the way I was before my surgery.

I hope that your symptoms improve very soon, Soliver. I know how hard this has been. I'm sure that you will find a resolution very soon.
Hang in there! We're here for you.
Denise
Denise...well about acid i think its resolved..but do you remember when i told you that the pill i have taken once comes back to my mouth?!!beside everynight i felt my saliva also coming back in the same way every 2 minutes ,thats why i made a barium test that shown abnormal persitaltism due to the surgery,maybe the wrap or the mechanism,some GIs said to me dilatation will work..but i have read that dilatation is also risky and may improve only 60% for 3 years ,thats why i am afraid...from acid reflux i am in esophageal reflux...i have made one dilatation,but im still feel irritated throat and burning in my chest due to the esophageal spasm .HOw things will be resolved i do not know yet..i can eat almost everything i chew well but food stay up to the wrap due to this issue.this is my main problem
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