Is it possible to have reflux without heartburn?

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Jocaste
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 9/1/2005 5:31 AM (GMT -6)   
  My brother-in-law has a hiatus hernia and suffers very bad reflux during the night requiring him to take gaviscon on top of his meds. The acid comes up into his mouth.My own HB is so much better on LC.Does anyone know if that means I am no longer having reflux? Thanks anyone.

Norm1
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 326
   Posted 9/2/2005 2:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Joecaste,
Your experience is typical. Remove the excess carbs from your diet and your and symptoms abate. According to my theory, the reason your symptoms have disappeared is because you removed the fuel or driving force for reflux, the gas / pressure produced from your own intestinal microbes feeding on the excess carbs your body can't absorb. Great news.

linlou
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   Posted 9/6/2005 6:12 PM (GMT -6)   
The only way you can tell if you are no longer having acid reflux is through testing. I have Acid Reflux Disease and take 40mg Nexium 2xday. Some foods can definitely trigger pain in me but I also know that something like Cream Of Wheat will be fine one week and the next week it can give me pain. It's the same way with a lot of foods I eat. We're all different in what works for us. If lowering your carbs is reducing your pain then by all means continue doing it. But is it a cure for reflux? I don't think so. Tell your doctor about your experience and ask if he can do a test to see if you still have refux problems. That will give you a more precise answer.
~~IF WE CAN'T LAUGH, WE CAN'T SURVIVE~~


Jocaste
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 9/7/2005 8:23 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks LInlou

I'm so relieved to have a bit of control back and to be without pain. I'm also beginning to suspect that the culprit may be grains...not just lower carb eating.

Norm1
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 326
   Posted 9/7/2005 9:10 AM (GMT -6)   
Jocaste,
Grrains are high carb. Reduced carbs means getting rid of grains in your diet.

Dr Norm

Jocaste
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 9/8/2005 6:43 AM (GMT -6)   

 Hi Dr Norm

Yes, Thanks I know grains are hi-carb and I have got rid of them but we don't know if I were to eat a potatoe if or not it would give me hb.What I'm saying is that my improvement may not just be because I'm following a lower carb diet and I'm aware that this doesn't fit in with your theory. This may not be the whole story a lot of people are sensitive to grains and when they cut them out of their diet they have no further digestive problems.You are convinced that your theory is correct and that's great ...I'm grateful for your theory but I'm not yet convinced for myself as I haven't tested it out.


Norm1
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   Posted 9/8/2005 10:16 AM (GMT -6)   
Jocaste,
Thanks for clarification.

Norm

JulieSch
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   Posted 9/9/2005 10:50 PM (GMT -6)   
I was on a low carb diet for almost 2 years and didn't have any GERD symptoms during that time. Since the first of the year I've been eating carbs and I can eat grains but I sure can't eat SUGAR! It sends me into real bad spell.
This summer I also found out soda pop does the same thing.
So just to clarify, not all carbs are bad. We all have to find out what foods we can eat and which ones we can't.
Julie


Jocaste
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Total Posts : 72
   Posted 9/10/2005 1:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Julie
Thanks for that post.

JulieSch
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Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 15
   Posted 9/10/2005 2:37 PM (GMT -6)   
BTW Jocaste, I don't get heartburn with my acid reflux. I get nauseated and bloated. Then of course is the acid taste and laying down is almost impossible sometimes. Having the head of the bed up at night helps but I also prop myself up on pillows. Not comfortable but it is to the alernative. Sitting up in a chair is preferrable if you can sleep that way. I'm sure many get heartburn too but not usually me. I use to get it when I was younger. I've found Mylanta helps too, better than Tums.
Julie


hearty
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   Posted 9/10/2005 6:17 PM (GMT -6)   
Seems like there are a variety of symptoms of acid reflux. How does a doctor know FOR SURE that is what you have? Sounds like some of us have heartburn, others don't, some chest pain, etc...... Aren't there other conditions that sort of mimic gerd? I am really confused about this condition. I just know it is a pain. I just went to the mall with my daughter and had trouble concentrating on perfumes and shoes with her cause of the stupid chest pain. I ate not quite a whole chicken sandwich and felt stuffed!!!! I mean like Thanksgiving dinner stuffed. What is up with that?

JulieSch
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Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 15
   Posted 9/10/2005 6:31 PM (GMT -6)   
I had mine DX by an Endoscopy. They put a tube down your throat. I also have a hiatial hernia. I think your Dr is the best bet in DX your symptoms. I have to take my bra off by mid afternoon a lot of days because of the bloating. You may only be able to eat a half a sandwich until you can get it under some kind of control with meds and diet. Diet is trial and error for everybody.
Julie


hearty
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Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 303
   Posted 9/10/2005 9:14 PM (GMT -6)   
So if I have the endoscopy....I will know 100% for sure if it is reflux? The test costs $2500.00 and my insurance won't pay one penny...so I have been reluctant. Also, the paperwork they make you sign makes it sound so dangerous. The possible risks they listed....well......

JulieSch
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Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 15
   Posted 9/10/2005 9:23 PM (GMT -6)   
I don't know if it would show a postive DX or not. Fotunately my insurance covered it. Aren't all poccedures risky? Seems you are doing what you can to resolve. I don't know what to tell you. I hope you do find out though. (((hugs)))
Julie


CathyA
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   Posted 9/10/2005 9:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Hearty,
The endoscopy will only show if you have damage from relux, or if your tissues are inflamed. I had reflux, but had a normal endoscopy. So you could definitely still have GERD, but have a normal endocscopy. When my GERD was at it's worse, I would blow up like balloon, even when eating very small amounts. I was put on Aciphex, and it was wonderful.

Jocaste
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Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 9/12/2005 7:12 AM (GMT -6)   

--Julie

I'm sorry you are suffering so much. Do you also take tablets?I suppose you have tried dietary changes. I'm fortunate in that discovering eating lots of veg, especially green ones with protein twice a day has given me so much relief.I haven't had much stress lately though--that is the big tester. When I'm stressed HB and reflux completely take over my body no matter what I try--the only solution then is drinking water-and eating nothing 'till the evening.

Thanks for your post


VV
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 1849
   Posted 9/12/2005 7:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Jocaste,
Like your brother-in-law, I use to take Maalox every night in addition to my meds, sometimes needed and others just for preventive measures of HB.

It's good your HB has subsided w/LC but doesn't really mean that you no longer have GERD. With many of us, these symptoms subside and come back w/a vengeance, for apparent or inapparent reasons.

I'm kind of like Linlou w/foods, fine one week & the next week really bothers me. I use to enjoy Tuna in water w/Miracle whip, but seem to give me HB now.

Tuna:Total Fat-0.5 g 1%
Sat Fat 0g
Cholest 30g
Sodium 250 mg

VV
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Date Joined Jul 2005
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   Posted 9/12/2005 7:59 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Jocaste,
Like your brother-in-law, I use to take Maalox every night in addition to my meds, sometimes needed and others just for preventive measures of HB.

It's good your HB has subsided w/LC but doesn't really mean that you no longer have GERD. With many of us, these symptoms subside and come back w/a vengeance, for apparent or inapparent reasons.

I'm kind of like Linlou w/foods, fine one week & the next week really bothers me. I use to enjoy Tuna in water w/Miracle whip, but seem to give me HB now.

Tuna:Total Fat-0.5 g 1%
Sat Fat 0g
Cholest 30g 10%
Sodium 250 mg 10%
Total Carb 0g
Sugars 0g
Protein 13g 23%

Miracle Whip: Total Fat 3.5 g
Total Carb 2g
Sugars 2g

I don't usally add any condiments(seasoning). Sometimes I eat it alone, wheat bread, or crackers.

So, now i'm even afraid to eat Tuna which is supposedly good for you.

This Gerd is Blah, blah, blah, blah!
It is certainly something that requires a lot of my attention, constantly figuring out what I will eat today, this moment....etc......

Vanessa

Norm1
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 326
   Posted 9/12/2005 9:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Vanessa,
The approach does not work meal by meal. Instead of blaming the last thing you eat, ask your self how many carbs did I consume in last 48 hours. That will help you discover the cause of your symptoms.

Norm
opinions based on my experience and research.

Jocaste
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 9/12/2005 11:58 AM (GMT -6)   

Hi Vanessa

Yes, today I have that searing pain in my back--but I don't think it has anything to do with what I've eaten...more that bending down (which you should avoid with a Hiatus hernia )has pushed some acid up into my oesophagus and done its thing like only it knows how!

No bloating, no HB, no nausea, so doing better than before---also noticed that my apetite is getting sharper--always ready for my meals. 


Jocaste
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 9/12/2005 1:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi again Vanessa
 
Can I just explain to you that since I have started low carbing my experience of eating has changed too.Before when I ate meals with grain the food would go into my oesophagus and stick--or so it felt--and then the bloating would start.Now the eating experience is totally different--My body accepts what I'm putting into it--the food  seems to travel further down--to be drawn down even-- and eating feels more normal again. I frequently used to want to be sick after eating but that is never the case now.
 
I probably do still have reflux at night--because I haven't reduced my carb intake to the recommended 25gs--but I feel so much better and relieved and I breath more easily--so for the time being I'm grateful and working on a plan to sort out the night gerd.

Jocaste
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 72
   Posted 9/12/2005 1:48 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi Jennifer

I used to think that eggs caused my gerd in the morning.I used to enjoy egg on toast which was always followed immediately by HB. A few days ago I made an omlette with bacon and cheese-result-no Hb so it wasn't the eggs after all that were causing me the problem but the bread.

I would never,in all these years of trying to find a solution that would ease my pain have suspected that the culprit was the bread.


Norm1
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 326
   Posted 9/14/2005 12:30 AM (GMT -6)   
Jocaste,
I could not have put it better myself. None of us knew. The way it came to light was people trying low carb to loose some weight and low and behold, one or two days later - heartburn is gone. It's truly amazing. I wish I could understand the reluctance to trying such a simple thing for two days after suffering daily for years. I wonder if most people still think that the answer is in a purple pill. That way, no change in lifestyle at all. Just remember to pop one in the morning and another one at night.

Norm

VV
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 1849
   Posted 9/14/2005 8:24 AM (GMT -6)   
Dr Norm,
I can totally relate to asking myself what foods were consumed in the last 48 hrs that might have triggered reflux. I have discovered some time ago that food obviously continue fermenting in the belly for long periods of time w/me. But, this Tuna incident is truly believed to be the Tuna itself and no other contributing factors.

Last night I went out to dinner and had Salmon salad, just plain lettuce & salad. Well, I got chest pain within minutes while trying to consume my dinner. Luckily, I had tums in my purse. I realized it was probably the dressing;orange rum glaze. It appeared that pinapples & juice was used in the dressing. I was initially hesistant when I read the dressing connected w/this salad, but figured I would try it anyway. My dinner from last night is sitting in the refridgerator as I type, figured I would give it to my hubby. Well, he doesn't really care for seafood. Just another disappointment w/dining out, a waste of my money & lack of calories(no dinner last night). :{


Dr Norm, I had to LOL when you wrote:
I wonder if most people still think that the answer is in a purple pill. That way, no change in lifestyle at all. Just remember to pop one in the morning and another one at night.

Funny, I agree that you really have to change your diet in order to get any continued relief. As I indicated in the past, your prescribed diet change would definitely be challenged if I had any body weight to shed. You indicate the way this diet came to light w/people trying to loose some weight and discovering that it also diminishes or eradicates reflux symptoms. So, I'm trying to gain weight and this method of eradication would not be in my best interest medically to totally explore right now. Eliminating food and reducing intake of certain foods has already caused weight reduction. I just do the best that I can w/trying to add more calories to my diet and i'm not sure if it's really working. I'm a little afraid to get on a scale. Some folks would probably say what am I worried about? but, being under & overly overweight are both potential problems in my opinion.
 
Jocaste, I'm really happy that LC are giving you some relief & good luck w/establishing what helps at night.  I really wish LC could be thoroughly explored in my case, but isn't possible right now.  I do believe that this method could probrably only help most.


Hope all have a reflux/Gerd free symptoms day. :}

Vanessa

Post Edited (VV) : 9/14/2005 7:35:25 AM (GMT-6)


Norm1
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Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 326
   Posted 9/14/2005 8:47 AM (GMT -6)   
Vanessa,
Thanks for your post. I have always thought that one could easily maintain a healthy weight on controlled carb eating because there are no caloric restrictions and the healthy fats, protiens and carbs allowed should give your body everything it needs to sustain. I will look into this question further and get back to you.

If you do give it another try, remember to add plenty of healthy fats (main fuel) to your diet. You can ask for another dressing on your salid when dining out.

Take Care,
Norm
Opinions based on my experience and research
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