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I have a theory about the cause of my LPR reflux, but I need some insight please

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Daxter
Regular Member
Joined : May 2013
Posts : 406
Posted 1/29/2015 3:08 AM (GMT -8)
I was spending the other night Googling about my health as I simply couldn't breath well enough to sleep, and I was desperate to find some answers. I came across something about "Turbinates"in the nose, swelling up under certain circumstances. I don't have allergies or infections, but perhaps they swelled up the last time I had a bad cold or something, and they've stayed that way for 2 years. Apparently it's not uncommon - up to 50% of the population can experience it, although not so many for as long as I have. Having said this, nasal saline sprays, anti-allergy meds and decongestants like Sudafed don't help at all. Only the OTC medicine Oxymetazoline Hydrochloride temporarily helps.

This is important to me for 2 reasons. One is that I haven't had a runny nose for 2 years - that means the post nasal drip in my throat is actually due to normal mucus not slipping out of my nose. That explains why when I had the Restech and Impedance studies, the mucus all but vanished. The tubes were opening my nose and letting my nose run for the first time in ages. That meant my throat didn't clog up with mucus on the airways, and my nose remained open all night; enough to breath properly!

The other is that I have symptoms of Sleep Apnae. I often wake up tired or with migraines, and I've caught myself gasping in my sleep. Sleep Apnae isn't necessarily caused by lifelong problems - obstructions in normal breathing can cause it too, including something as simple as swollen turbinates. That's why I'm tired, but not so tired I "fall asleep at the wheel" or something.

What does this have to do with reflux you may ask? One doctor describes a "Vacuum" effect that occurs when the airways function differently. This sucks pepsin - albeit not a huge amount - up the throat causing LPR symptoms. This is why things like Gaviscon Advance, PPIs and Alkaline Water don't work for me. At the end of the day, I still have a blocked nose, which will still affect my breathing, which will still cause some reflux. It would also explain why sometimes I can eat bad foods, and not feel much worse than if I just drank alkaline water and ate a piece of bread, or even had nothing to eat at all.

Something else it explains is why I had normal impedance study results (only 9 reflux episodes and at night only), but whenever I took a Peptest sample, the results from after a night's sleep were always negative. My symptoms occur when I'm awake and more aware of my obstructed breathing. That leads to anxiety, which leads to even more of a vacuum, which led to the positive samples. Make sense? I hope so ^^; It certainly would show why I have positive samples, but none of the symptoms of other LPR patients like hoarseness.

It may well have started when I had my endoscopy 2 years ago, or maybe it was caused by stress but I can't be certain. In any case, I'm still pursuing LINX surgery any way I can, but I'm also pursuing surgery to fix my nose and see if the symptoms stop after that. At the very least, a possibility exists of a fix. I just hope its the semi-sleep-apnae causing the reflux, and not the other way around. If it is, I have a chance of being cured. If not, LINX is my only hope.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with this kind of thing? I hope I'm on the right track here. In the meantime, here's a link to where I first found out about this theory.

http://doctorstevenpark.com/how-sleep-apnea-causes-pepsin-reflux

Post Edited (Daxter) : 1/29/2015 4:26:03 AM (GMT-7)

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Army_Vet60
Regular Member
Joined : Jan 2015
Posts : 23
Posted 1/29/2015 5:07 AM (GMT -8)
Hi,

I have the same problem you described with trying to sleep at night.

What works best for me is putting some Vick's Vapor Rub under each nostril. Breathing in deeply clears up the passages pretty quickly, and I put enough of it under my nostrils that it lasts most of the night.

It works well enough that I get about 6 hours uninterrupted sleep. I don't wake up coughing like I did before every two-three hours.

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Daxter
Regular Member
Joined : May 2013
Posts : 406
Posted 1/29/2015 6:42 AM (GMT -8)

Army_Vet60 said...
Hi,
I have the same problem you described with trying to sleep at night.

What works best for me is putting some Vick's Vapor Rub under each nostril. Breathing in deeply clears up the passages pretty quickly, and I put enough of it under my nostrils that it lasts most of the night.

It works well enough that I get about 6 hours uninterrupted sleep. I don't wake up coughing like I did before every two-three hours.

Unfortunately Vapour Rub actually makes me worse; so does steam inhalation or similar things-! :p
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opnwhl4
Veteran Member
Joined : Dec 2008
Posts : 4961
Posted 1/29/2015 11:34 PM (GMT -8)
Daxter

I had septum and turbinate surgery in 2003. I used to get a lot of sinus infections and PND. Since the surgery I am amazed at how much my PND is and how much more my nose runs, especially when it's cold out.

You might on to something.

Take care,
Bill
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Trotters
Regular Member
Joined : Jun 2014
Posts : 332
Posted 1/30/2015 8:22 AM (GMT -8)
Daxter I experienced exactly the same as you. Every time I've had the darn tube in, the mucus in my throat/lungs just goes. My nose constantly ran too. I have a constant stuffy nose a feeling of mucus at the back of my nose but my nose never runs. I have constant sinus pain particularly in the morning. I'm just about to do my third sample for first peptest but don't know why as I really think my surgeon will just disregard it. I'm feeling very despondent and low as nobody knows our bodies like we do. I've lived with this for 14 moths and made notes of things that help and what don't help and my symptoms. I'm 99% certain my symptoms are primarily down to reflux but due to my tests being only just out of the normal range or normal on that day I'm sent on my way. I do believe that lpr testing should have different criteria for diagnosis and not the same as classic gerd. Most people want to win the lottery, I'd pay 2 million to just have my life back.

Post Edited (Trotters) : 1/30/2015 10:56:03 AM (GMT-7)

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Daxter
Regular Member
Joined : May 2013
Posts : 406
Posted 1/30/2015 11:09 AM (GMT -8)

Trotters said...
Daxter I experienced exactly the same as you. Every time I've had the darn tube in, the mucus in my throat/lungs just goes. My nose constantly ran too. I have a constant stuffy nose a feeling of mucus at the back of my nose but my nose never runs. I have constant sinus pain particularly in the morning. I'm just about to do my third sample for first peptest but don't know why as I really think my surgeon will just disregard it. I'm feeling very despondent and low as nobody knows our bodies like we do. I've lived with this for 14 moths and made notes of things that help and what don't help and my symptoms. I'm 99% certain my symptoms are primarily down to reflux but due to my tests being only just out of the normal range or normal on that day I'm sent on my way. I do believe that lpr testing should have different criteria for diagnosis and not the same as classic gerd. Most people want to win the lottery, I'd pay 2 million to just have my life back.

Trotters, please let me know what your peptest samples say. Remember the theory I presented says the turbinate swelling itself causes "LPR" in small amounts, so even if you get a small-positive test like me, you might well be ok. Maybe I don't have classic LPR after all - I mean 3 different impedance tests can't be wrong surely, even if the Peptests say there was pepsin in my throat. At least I hope that's the case.

Don't get me wrong, I still think I have LPR, and will still be pushing for surgery in a month's time, but I'm also going to ride this train as far as I can.
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