Questions about Gastric Emptying Study, Iberogast, etc.

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CathyA
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Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 1543
   Posted 8/4/2007 11:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi all,
   I haven't been here in a long time.  My GERD seemed to clear up fairly well in the past few years.
But last spring I developed nausea and have had a million tests to figure it out.......all negative.  I finally got in with a new GI doc and he ordered a Gastric Emptying test.  I'm having big problems with leg and hip pain and I don't think I can lay still for the couple of hours the test supposedly takes.   The doc did mention a possible alternative to Reglan.  Its "Iberogast".  Its an herbal supplement, used in Germany for about 50 years. 
Supposedly, it helps with alot of GI problems.  I'm curious if any of you have ever heard of it or used it?
   I'm also wondering if many of you have had the test for gastroparesis.
   I can't use PPIs.  They give me horrible headaches.  I realize now that the 5 years of almost constant headaches I had about 8 years ago was caused by the PPIs!  I can't believe I didn't make the connection.
   And H2 blockers don't seem to have an effect.
   Also.......do many of you have nausea/belching with your GERD, but NO heartburn?   I guess I was thinking I didn't have reflux anymore because I don't have heartburn, but I may be wrong.  Thanks for your help!

Halls
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 79
   Posted 8/4/2007 11:23 AM (GMT -6)   
WOW, I can't take PPi's either as they give my horrible headaches as well, on top of dry mouth, jitterness, muscle tightness, etc.. and the H2 blockers I get the exact side effects. Imagine that,lol! The antacids like Gaviscon make me very dizzy so I can't take those either.

I love Reglan but the side effects are hard on me. I took one last night and jerked all night, but my lower esophagus feels so much better today. I will look into the Iberogast cause anything that is natural that works like Relgan I would be interested in, but I have never heard of it.

I see my GI doc in a couple of weeks and will ask him about the Iberogast as well.

I burp all the time but have no heartburn, or at least I don't feel the heartburn coming up my throat, but if it in my lower esophagus it wouldn't surprise me.

Halls
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 79
   Posted 8/4/2007 11:50 AM (GMT -6)   
ok, what I found about iberogast is that it is a digestive enzyme with lots of good stuff in it, including DGL licorice which is really good for people with GERD, or so I hear,lol!

I have never heard of it today but reading about it on google makes me think I want to give it a try, because it is a liquid and can be dropped into water and swallow quickly. I will try that over chewable stuff any time, lol!

Street
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 1/6/2008 6:18 AM (GMT -6)   
I was a long time GERD suffer and became a Naturopath as a result having been on Losec then Nexium for years after chewing those tables full of aluminum.

I am now symptom free and now use Iberogast http://flordis.com.au/pages/products/iberogast.php as a back up when I drink too much booze (rare these days) or eat the wrong foods.

I fixed my digestion through supplemental digestive enzymes, HCL and stopped all refined processed foods (bread, buscuits, cakes, pata, pizza, donuts, candy) and sugars. I also stopped eating all wheat products, reduced my dairy intake.

So i can recommend Iberogast as a source of releif and repair.

Scott

Mom2sophia
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 1/6/2008 10:36 AM (GMT -6)   
SCOTT:  Did you gradually go off the Nexium or go cold turkey?  Did you introduce the HCL while you were on the Nexium or after you stopped?  Do you ONLY take the digestive enzyme when you slip up or everyday?
 
CATHYA:  I have had to GES studies done.  One of them I did have to lay there for a good two hours.  I had the test for gastroparesis and I did have it.  I was on Reglan which is HORRIBLE stuff...I would not recommend it.  I was on a low dose and I still experienced extreme tiredness, I felt so drugged I couldn't drive, and depression.  As soon as I went off, I was fine.
 
I am trying what Scott did, but very slowly.  I am on the same diet as he mentioned and taking a digestive enzyme called Similase.
 
HTH

Mom2sophia
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 1/6/2008 11:27 AM (GMT -6)   
Scott...do you eat any gluten-free foods like pasta, some crackers, etc...?

ale17
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 38
   Posted 1/6/2008 11:56 AM (GMT -6)   
HI,
I seem to have a lot of the same symptoms as you guys. It takes forever for my stomach to empty and I don't really get heartburn though I do get reflux at night when I lie down (probably my dinner or maybe even lunch coming up, yuk!).

I don't take PPI's or H2 blockers, never liked the way they made me feel, but i do take the similase digestive enzymes also and they help but I have to share this one with you guys, I notice it helps me empty my stomach faster, its fennel seeds. People in India have been taking these for thousands of years after meals to aid digestion. Just the other night I was ready to go to bed and felt like i was going to get reflux because my food was still sitting in my stomach. So I chewed about a pinch of fennel seeds and within 15 minutes my stomach felt lighter.
I've been reading a bit on the medicinal properties of fennel seeds and it seems like it stimulates bile production among other things.

Has anybody tried this and what was your outcome?

Ale

Street
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 1/6/2008 5:05 PM (GMT -6)   
Having an understanding about how stress plays a role in the diet as well understanding that some foods cause digestive stress can also help with symptoms.

Stress (long hours, worry, bad relationship, toxins, anxiety) can cause a down regulation of the gastric acids and gut motility (movement). What may seem like heart burn may actually be fermentation in the gut from lack of enzymes and Hydrochloric Acid (DO NOT TAKE HYDROCHLORIC ACID unless it is advised by your health care provider as it may cause irritation or further damage to GUT linings)

Understanding that you gut is like a big bucket and we eat it all sits there being processed by enzymes and acid. Eating Meats first may help as it allows them to be exposed to the acids and enzymes first. Then only eat vegetables with meats never fruits (food combining) as the fruits get priority in the gut and the meats ferment.

I found that I could slowly reduce the use of the drugs firstly by altering my diet removing all breads, cereals, grains, wheat (gluten), pasta, rich sauces, dairy products and have a basic diet. Once the irritated mucosa linings were repaired I could eat a varied diet again but watched what I ate and drank and then added HCL to the diet. This was to avoid irritation to any damaged linings.

As mentioned above I was under acidic not over as believed by my gastroenterologist, I had poor performing digestion, once understood I started supplementing enzymes 15 mins with every meal before food and HCL with food. The food was sitting there, no need to use a PPI when i needed all the acid i could get in my case. If stress and diet are good you could find that things may settle down as they did for me, I started to take more time for me doing the things that I loved to do to chill and recharge.

I have also used a herb called slippery elm, to coat and sooth. mix 2 teaspoons into water until it looks like sticky mucous then swallow slowly and it coats as it travels down.

There is so much more to this topic such as Bacterial/fungal/Overgrowth, poor nutrient absorption (Histidine which makes HCL), Poor Pancreatic Function, Endocrine Dysfunction, leaky gut syndrome, Serotonin and bowel regulation.

Ale17 : you might want to see your specialist for an endoscopy (camera down your throat) to look for a laxed esophagus sphincter (not closing properly from your gut) and reducing fluids before bed time to stop the wash back.

Mom2sophia
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 1/6/2008 5:54 PM (GMT -6)   
Did you see an ND (naturopathic physician) for all these supplements?
 
I was told to take my digestive enzyme with my meals...take it after a few bites?  Where you told to take it before or is that what you found worked best for you?
 
I was also told to take HCL before meals.
 
Thank you for all the info.

Street
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 1/6/2008 7:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi again since you asked i have spoken with some of my colleagues and we now agree that taking HCL before meals is ideal as it prepares the stomach for food. As far as the enzymes go there is debate, with one comment being that the enzymes should be taken after the meals so that they are not damaged by the HCL.

I have been taking the enzymes and HCL before food and it has been working for me, as ususual please check with you Doctor before self prescribing or changing anything.

As an ND i can purchase these products from a local supplier here in Australia.

Mom2sophia
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 1/7/2008 10:17 AM (GMT -6)   
Oh, so you are an ND...not wonder you are so informed,lol!
 
I will certainly ask my doc before changing.  Last night I ate a salad (which I don't usually do b/c raw veggies can really get to me).  I took my digestive enzymes with my meal.  I didn't take any HCL.  I was feeling really sick about an hour later and I decided to take some...I did, and a few minutes later, I felt much better. 
 
So you take the HCL and enzymes before your meal, together?  When you say before your meal, is that like right before you take a bite or about 15 mins before a meal?
 
As an ND, can you tell me your thoughts on 3A Magnesia?  I am on this (directed by my ND) for constipation.  I am taking 6 tabs every night and still not going.  Any advice?

ale17
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 38
   Posted 1/8/2008 8:21 PM (GMT -6)   
thanks Scott,
I have been to a GI and had an endoscopy. All they tell me is that I have GERD because my stomach shows signs of inflammation and I have a very small hiatal hernia, and load me up with PPI samples on my way out their office. I, like you, think that I have the opposite problem, lack of acid and/or digestive enzymes but when I bring this up to the GI I get the deer in the headlights look.

It might just be a combination of things, I agree with your comments about having a weak LES valve. Do you as an ND have any recommendations as to what I can do or supplements that I can take to strengthen this valve? Anybody?

MoM2sophia: How are you doing with reducing your PPI dosage? Hope the more natural treatment is working for you.

Thanks again for your comments.

Street
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 1/9/2008 6:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Ale17 -
I have a Laxed Esophageal Sphincter myself and have the best result i found for me is to avoid too much fluid before bed time. There are herbal formulas that can tone mucous membranes but i haven't had any success thus far. As a side, peppermint is know to relax the sphincter so if you have peppermint herbs/tea it's best avoided.

Herbal medicines like Marshmallow and Meadowsweet, Slippery Elm, can assist with gastric lining and reduce inflammation. Including fish oils in your diet (be cautious if you have allergies - best avoided again) as they are a natural anti-inflammatory. www.omega-research.com

inflammation can be caused by Food Allergy (Wheat, Dairy, Other Foods Not yet Known to you), Intestinal Fungi, Bacterial or Parasitic infection, Helicobacter Pylori, Alcohol, to name but a few.

Proteins like glutamine is another common used product for gastric linings which may assist with repair.


Mom2Sophia
Magnesium is a common treatment for constipation as it draws water into the bowel, certain forms of magnesium affect individuals differently. I have used magnesium myself even supermarket (epsom salts) magnesium, which i took about 2 grams (1 teaspoon(1gr) then again in four hours) before i got a result. Magnesium Oxide is the main ingredient in the supplement and is generally quite effective. But you should advise your ND that it is not working and seek further advice just to rule out other pathologies or obstructions. Some medications can cause constipation so if you are on any meds check to see if there are any side effects.

I take my enzymes and HCL about 15mins before food, given that i am busy I generally find that this doesn't always happen.

TammyGrl0528
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 1345
   Posted 1/9/2008 8:24 AM (GMT -6)   
I am glad you are all finding comfort in eachother with answers here. I want to advise everyone to be cautious when posting links. We do not approve links that advertise. Please be aware of that before posting links.

Also, please make your links active by hitting post reply, then click on the earth with a paper clip, and type your link in the provided box. Keeping in mind that links that advertise are not allowed.

Thanks for your understanding, and please, continue to help eachother! :)
 GERD Forum Moderator
    Please share, only if you can spare! 
 Diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) and Panic Attacks.
 Clickable Link that may be of interest to some...as I find I often like to check drug interactions...Drug Interactions
 
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ale17
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 38
   Posted 1/13/2008 11:09 AM (GMT -6)   
Scott:
Thanks so much for your feedback. I've been seeing a Naturopath for the last couple of years and she's prescribed a lot of the same things you do. It's comforting to know that somebody with my same problems is doing a similar treatment. Slippery Elm, glutamine, digestive enzymes, etc... I'll have to check out the Iberogast though.

I also was tested for allergies and came back positive to 24 different things although the big ones are wheat and dairy, go figure.

I'm going to the Mayo Clinic in a couple of weeks to see if they have any recommendations for the weak LES valve. I'm wondering if its not just something anatomical, who knows?

FYI. I also take a magnesium supplement for constipation, its called Natural Calm, I love it because it doesn't cause any pain or cramping.

Have a nice weekend!

TammyGrl0528
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 1345
   Posted 1/14/2008 7:21 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for sharing your story and thoughts ale!
 GERD Forum Moderator
    Please share, only if you can spare! 
 Diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) and Panic Attacks.
 Clickable Link that may be of interest to some...as I find I often like to check drug interactions...Drug Interactions
 
~Tammy~


Mom2sophia
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 262
   Posted 1/15/2008 4:12 PM (GMT -6)   

Well, I am down to 40 mgs of Nexium now.  I tried going skipping every other day (I think too fast) and my stomach was burning so bad last night.  So I will probably stick to 40 for a little while and ask my doc for some 20 mgs. 

I have a different case of constipation...I have colonic inertia.  I am scheduled to have a total colectomy March 27th.  In the meanwhile, the ND thought I should try the magnesia.  I took HIGH doses of it for a full week and nothing.


TammyGrl0528
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 1345
   Posted 1/15/2008 10:12 PM (GMT -6)   
Yea, I think you tried to fast. Stick with the 40 for a bit longer, then go down to 20, especially if you had severe burning going on when skipping. Take your time!

Wishing you all the best...please do keep us posted on you!
 GERD Forum Moderator
    Please share, only if you can spare! 
 Diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) and Panic Attacks.
 Clickable Link that may be of interest to some...as I find I often like to check drug interactions...Drug Interactions
 
~Tammy~


Lordcary
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 9/14/2008 1:25 PM (GMT -6)   
CathyA & Halls
 
I have suffered from acid reflux for years but didn't think of it as that, as I had a burning sensation in my throat and dry mouth, no other symptoms.  I've been taking digestive enzymes & betaine (hcl) so I didn't think I had a digestive problem. I had hiutus hernia about 5 years ago and the naturopath fixed it.  I had another attack (at least that was what I call it, pain in my gut right there at the top of my stomach, it was agony) I took aloe very, ate the gel right from the leaf (peeled it).  I was at the doctor the other day and mentioned it and he gave me Iberogast, it works great, but I don't think one needs to take enzymes or hcl with it.  Someone told me that when your stomach has a fare amount of water in it, a bottle - 16 oz., to jump on the spot a couple of times - it pulls the stomach down.
 
 

lola333
New Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 2/23/2009 8:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Street,

I'm interested in the connection you mentioned between serotonin and bowel regulation. Can you explain this?

I had reflux (have medium hiatal hernia) before changing my diet, targeting yeast and taking enzymes, but I'm still suffering from bloating after every meal and have had chronic fatigue for almost 2 years now. The last Neuroscience lab tests I took showed very low serotonin levels (also low cortisol, progesterone and dhea which I'm treating).
I take L-tryptophan before bed but wondered if the digestive problems, bloating, sluggish metabolism and constipation could be related to serotonin (as most of it is produced in the gut)?

Also thinking about the emptying you mentioned- Iberogast?

Thanks so much,
L

annalisa
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 2/23/2009 10:08 PM (GMT -6)   
I been diagnosed with Gastroparesis in March of 2008, been having quite problem with it, i would be very interested on how Iberogast works.  Cannot take ppi, I have such bad headaches.

Post Edited (annalisa) : 2/23/2009 9:13:27 PM (GMT-7)


rawmaven
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 25
   Posted 2/24/2009 4:50 AM (GMT -6)   
Scott,

Can you possibly share your e-mail address? I would like to talk more about the overgrowth of bacteria.

Thanks!

momangel
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 64
   Posted 2/24/2009 6:46 PM (GMT -6)   

Hello

This is a very interesting thread. I have been seeing a Naturpath for about 3 weeks and am starting to feel pretty good. It has been difficult to change lifestyle eatting habits but I am sure that it is the best thing for my body.  Have been taking natural food and herbal supplements for my digestive issues.  IBS, and reflux induced esphagitis 0f the lower third, inflamation of stomach mucosa and a large Hiatal Hernia. Scott, would the Iberogast help with my issues?  I had been taking Nexium until 4 days ago. I switched to Prilosec, hoping that it will replace the Nexium until the natural supplements take over.  I do not feel the symptoms of the reflux. I get no heartburn and what I eat does not seem to bother me or give me pain. Yet the endoscopy told a diffferent story. I also had my gallbladder removed in Oct. 

Also, regarding my hiatal hernia. Anyone? How serious can it be?  I am new to this issue since I just found out that have one.  Should I be concerned about it or could I live the rest of my life without it causing a problem?  I just heard that my friends mother almost died because of a large hernia that caused her stomach to protrude into her chest cavity and moved her heart over. I don't know how she is but they had to do emergency surgery. 


momangel
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 64
   Posted 2/24/2009 6:49 PM (GMT -6)   
Anyone...please feel free to share your thoughts to the above inquiry. Thanks

info1239865
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 11/6/2009 8:16 AM (GMT -6)   
 
I wonder if your treatment with hormones was helpfull?
I have tried progesterone and thyrois supplement but I got even more severe reflux or burning in esophaggus. I have red that enybody with candida have hormonal problems and it will not probably help. But in some cases hormonal problems could be stared firts.
 
lola333 said...
Hi Street,

I'm interested in the connection you mentioned between serotonin and bowel regulation. Can you explain this?

I had reflux (have medium hiatal hernia) before changing my diet, targeting yeast and taking enzymes, but I'm still suffering from bloating after every meal and have had chronic fatigue for almost 2 years now. The last Neuroscience lab tests I took showed very low serotonin levels (also low cortisol, progesterone and dhea which I'm treating).
I take L-tryptophan before bed but wondered if the digestive problems, bloating, sluggish metabolism and constipation could be related to serotonin (as most of it is produced in the gut)?

Also thinking about the emptying you mentioned- Iberogast?

Thanks so much,
L

Post Edited (Lazzat) : 11/6/2009 7:24:33 AM (GMT-7)

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