My doctor had again prescribed Bicillin shots to treat Lyme. However, there is a severe shortage of Bicillin, plus Bicillin is excreted through kidneys. I have had stage 3 kidney disease for 12 or more years now and have been very cautious with medication and foods/drinks that might worsen that. At the time I used Bicillin, I didn't even know my kidney numbers were off.
I am considering asking my LLMD if I can use Rocephen instead as it is removed from body through the kidneys and liver, making it less risky for kidney disease to worsen. Have read it is good for neuro-Lyme. While it would be easier to do a Bicillin shot every 6 days instead of everyday with Rocephen shot each day or a pic line, I don't see much of a choice here.
One other concern I have is when I first started treating Lyme in 2013 (it took 11 years to get a diagnosis of Lyme), LLMD had me on PIC line using clindamycin. On the second day of using it,. I had a horrendous reaction with complete body shaking and my temperature went up to 105.7. Not sure if it was the clindamycin or maybe started with too much or pic line infusion was too intense. He stopped my immediately and started Bicillin.
Do my thoughts on this seem reasonable, and if I did do Rocephen, is it possible with pic line to do a smaller dose or work up? As sit here each doing next to nothing by cryptolepsis to treat Babesia, things just keep getting worse. Thanks.
Hi RW
if you are looking for alternates - i recall there was a paper on lyme and piperacillin recently that found it was effective at doses 100x less than other commonly used antibiotics
that may be worth looking into as - although the study was only looking at lyme - so only demonstrated the increased effectiveness on lyme bacteria - and i know you are dealing with co-infections also - but it would seem to have the advantage of requiring a much lower dose vs most antibiotics
i think the study used 100x lower dose vs standard and still performed as well as standard dose of whatever the reference antibiotic they were using
will see if i can find a link
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
if you are looking for alternates - i recall there was a paper on lyme and piperacillin recently that found it was effective at doses 100x less than other commonly used antibiotics
that may be worth looking into as - although the study was only looking at lyme - so only demonstrated the increased effectiveness on lyme bacteria - and i know you are dealing with co-infections also - but it would seem to have the advantage of requiring a much lower dose vs most antibiotics
i think the study used 100x lower dose vs standard and still performed as well as standard dose of whatever the reference antibiotic they were using
will see if i can find a link
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
Garzie - I appreciate that information. When I was in the hospital twice in January because of the problem a probe of urinary tract caused, I was taking pipercillin. It's not as safe for kidneys as rocephen because it is all excreted through kidneys compared to rocephen through kidney and liver.
I did send an additional message to LLMD asking about it. Again, thanks.
I did send an additional message to LLMD asking about it. Again, thanks.
paper here https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.adr9091
to clarify - the logic to run past your doc would be - acc to this study - you could take 10x lower dose vs standard and still be effective for lyme
that 10x lower dose might be more favourable for kidneys vs standard dose of Rocephin
all the best !
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
to clarify - the logic to run past your doc would be - acc to this study - you could take 10x lower dose vs standard and still be effective for lyme
that 10x lower dose might be more favourable for kidneys vs standard dose of Rocephin
all the best !
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
Great information, as always. One day, I will actually have experienced something that might help you. You are very appreciated.
Happy to help RW - wishing you all the best
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
I'm back trying to get treatment for Borrelia after learning Bicillin will not be available anytime soon. Was hoping there was a way to find some with intermittent shortages.
The LLMD and see and my primary care, who is pretty well educated on Lyme, both said they would need to see more studies come out on pipercillin to prescribe it. Then what confused me is my LLMD mentioned the possibility of using high dose amoxicillin. I've never seen anything that shows that amoxicillin at any dose would help with chronic, long-term Lyme. Maybe I just haven't come across it.
As much as I wouldn't want to have to do it, it seems Rocephen is the best alternative, as I have plenty of signs of neuro-Lyme causing dysautonomia (heart, dizziness, stomach). Also, Rocephen is excreted by both liver and kidneys, rather than just kidneys. That's important because of kidney disease I'm dealing with.
Finally, there's doxycycline, which is excreted, primarily, through gastrointestinal tract. Stomach issues are concern there, as I have been experiencing them for a long time now. My hope is, as mentioned before, treating will help with Sjogrens symptoms and dysautonomia.
Just haven't been able to find where amoxicillin would help in this situation.
The LLMD and see and my primary care, who is pretty well educated on Lyme, both said they would need to see more studies come out on pipercillin to prescribe it. Then what confused me is my LLMD mentioned the possibility of using high dose amoxicillin. I've never seen anything that shows that amoxicillin at any dose would help with chronic, long-term Lyme. Maybe I just haven't come across it.
As much as I wouldn't want to have to do it, it seems Rocephen is the best alternative, as I have plenty of signs of neuro-Lyme causing dysautonomia (heart, dizziness, stomach). Also, Rocephen is excreted by both liver and kidneys, rather than just kidneys. That's important because of kidney disease I'm dealing with.
Finally, there's doxycycline, which is excreted, primarily, through gastrointestinal tract. Stomach issues are concern there, as I have been experiencing them for a long time now. My hope is, as mentioned before, treating will help with Sjogrens symptoms and dysautonomia.
Just haven't been able to find where amoxicillin would help in this situation.
I'm back trying to get treatment for Borrelia after learning Bicillin will not be available anytime soon. Was hoping there was a way to find some with intermittent shortages.
The LLMD and see and my primary care, who is pretty well educated on Lyme, both said they would need to see more studies come out on pipercillin to prescribe it. Then what confused me is my LLMD mentioned the possibility of using high dose amoxicillin. I've never seen anything that shows that amoxicillin at any dose would help with chronic, long-term Lyme. Maybe I just haven't come across it.
As much as I wouldn't want to have to do it, it seems Rocephen is the best alternative, as I have plenty of signs of neuro-Lyme causing dysautonomia (heart, dizziness, stomach). Also, Rocephen is excreted by both liver and kidneys, rather than just kidneys. That's important because of kidney disease I'm dealing with.
Finally, there's doxycycline, which is excreted, primarily, through gastrointestinal tract. Stomach issues are concern there, as I have been experiencing them for a long time now. My hope is, as mentioned before, treating will help with Sjogrens symptoms and dysautonomia.
Just haven't been able to find where amoxicillin would help in this situation.
The LLMD and see and my primary care, who is pretty well educated on Lyme, both said they would need to see more studies come out on pipercillin to prescribe it. Then what confused me is my LLMD mentioned the possibility of using high dose amoxicillin. I've never seen anything that shows that amoxicillin at any dose would help with chronic, long-term Lyme. Maybe I just haven't come across it.
As much as I wouldn't want to have to do it, it seems Rocephen is the best alternative, as I have plenty of signs of neuro-Lyme causing dysautonomia (heart, dizziness, stomach). Also, Rocephen is excreted by both liver and kidneys, rather than just kidneys. That's important because of kidney disease I'm dealing with.
Finally, there's doxycycline, which is excreted, primarily, through gastrointestinal tract. Stomach issues are concern there, as I have been experiencing them for a long time now. My hope is, as mentioned before, treating will help with Sjogrens symptoms and dysautonomia.
Just haven't been able to find where amoxicillin would help in this situation.
Hi RW
amoxicillin does have history for use for Lyme
its actually a first line drug for cases where doxy is contra indicated ( children and pregnant mothers)
if it works for first line treatment in the acute phase it will also have activity for chronic lyme - all the other abx work like that also - its just - as we know chronic lyme is harder to treat
half life is short compared to other abx - so typically needs 3x a day dosing to keep levels up
ref bicillin - was the source in India also experiencing supply issues ?
ref Piperacillin - it was patented in 1974 and approved by the FDA in 1981. It has been utilized for over 40 years in the US as a broad-spectrum antibiotic for treating severe, hospitalized infections, such as those caused by Pseudomonas aeruginosa. how much more data could the MD want before prescribing it?
i am not a doctor - and you should definitely work with yours to determine what the best approach for your particular case might be - but the risk vs reward equation seems favourable on the face of it, especially at the very low doses which the prior study seemed to suggest would be effective - for borrelia specifically -
As i had understood it, you were looking for an option you could go gently with at first to feel your way with herx, auto-immune reactions, and kidney test numbers - worst case it doesn't help - but nothing really lost.
just brainstorming the options - not trying to sway you either way
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
amoxicillin does have history for use for Lyme
its actually a first line drug for cases where doxy is contra indicated ( children and pregnant mothers)
if it works for first line treatment in the acute phase it will also have activity for chronic lyme - all the other abx work like that also - its just - as we know chronic lyme is harder to treat
half life is short compared to other abx - so typically needs 3x a day dosing to keep levels up
ref bicillin - was the source in India also experiencing supply issues ?
ref Piperacillin - it was patented in 1974 and approved by the FDA in 1981. It has been utilized for over 40 years in the US as a broad-spectrum antibiotic for treating severe, hospitalized infections, such as those caused by Pseudomonas aeruginosa. how much more data could the MD want before prescribing it?
i am not a doctor - and you should definitely work with yours to determine what the best approach for your particular case might be - but the risk vs reward equation seems favourable on the face of it, especially at the very low doses which the prior study seemed to suggest would be effective - for borrelia specifically -
As i had understood it, you were looking for an option you could go gently with at first to feel your way with herx, auto-immune reactions, and kidney test numbers - worst case it doesn't help - but nothing really lost.
just brainstorming the options - not trying to sway you either way
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
Garzie - Whenever you put out information or answer a question, it is never taken as "trying to sway" by me. It is helpful.
I'm with you on the pipercillin. It seems worth a try, but the LLMD seemed to not be impressed by it when I mentioned taking it. I also like that it seems to be easier on gut. As far as amoxicillin goes, over the years I have read it is good for early Lyme, but have never come across anything suggesting it would help long-term chronic. '
My frickin' kidneys put such a kink in treatment choices. I looked back and saw where my creatinine was 1.09 in late 2011. By 2013, it had gone up to 1.35, so not sure what changed in that time frame, though early 2013 was when I was diagnosed after 11 years with Lyme. Not sure if the time I had tremendously bad reaction to clindamycin may have started it. It was already up when I started 2.4 mu of Bicillin every 5 days.
As far as India, with the shortage going on and reading in past about so much fraud coming out of there with different drugs, plus how tough it is to mix and get to inject, I'm not comfortable with trying it from there again. I have seen information similar to the following a good number of times:
"Counterfeit Concerns: Authorities in India have conducted raids on syndicates producing fake antibiotics labeled with legitimate names like Pfizer and GlaxoSmithKline."
I'm with you on the pipercillin. It seems worth a try, but the LLMD seemed to not be impressed by it when I mentioned taking it. I also like that it seems to be easier on gut. As far as amoxicillin goes, over the years I have read it is good for early Lyme, but have never come across anything suggesting it would help long-term chronic. '
My frickin' kidneys put such a kink in treatment choices. I looked back and saw where my creatinine was 1.09 in late 2011. By 2013, it had gone up to 1.35, so not sure what changed in that time frame, though early 2013 was when I was diagnosed after 11 years with Lyme. Not sure if the time I had tremendously bad reaction to clindamycin may have started it. It was already up when I started 2.4 mu of Bicillin every 5 days.
As far as India, with the shortage going on and reading in past about so much fraud coming out of there with different drugs, plus how tough it is to mix and get to inject, I'm not comfortable with trying it from there again. I have seen information similar to the following a good number of times:
"Counterfeit Concerns: Authorities in India have conducted raids on syndicates producing fake antibiotics labeled with legitimate names like Pfizer and GlaxoSmithKline."