Recently DX type 2

Diseases & Conditions Diabetes
1
Hello,
 
I am new to this so please bear with me.   I usually frequent the chronic pain forum so I am not new to the website.
 
I have been dealing with chronic pain now for 4 years and it has caused be to give up work and to become less active, which seems to be a big problem for me!!      I do take pain medication and it seems to be helping me get out and exercise but I have a BMI of about 33% and it is killing me.
 
I was a skinny health person before the CP and I somehow think the meds I've taken over the years have added to my problems.  
 
The pain issue here is neuropathy and for awhile they did not know where it was coming from now they say it is due to diabetes.  I still don't know if this is true as my BG numbers are not that high at all.  I hjave had many fasting tests and they all seem to be in the pre-diabetic range. I was diagnosed by a glucose tolerance test in which the number were way out of wack, or so they told me.   I have a meter and do test quite frequently and until recently my fasting number were about 90-95 now after dieting and exercising my fasting number are around 110-118 and this is a fast of about 8-9 hours.  I understand about the " Dawn Phenomenon" but I don't understand why it would show up out of nowhere.   Is there something else I need to know about. Could my HBP medications or Opioids becausing this??  I don't take glucose medicines (Yet) as I am trying to reverse this with diet and exercise.  For the first week it felt like I was losing weight and numbers were great now I seem to be at a stand still.
 
Anyways, thanks for listening
 
Glenn
2
First off, welcome to the forum.

When you have multiple health problems it really complicates things, like you did not already know this.

The place you are in your diabetes sure does not sound like it would cause neuropathy. Neuropathy is caused after a long period of high blood glucose levels. It does not come at the beginning or does it preceed diabetes. OK, it could be from other places and agrivated by diabetes, but your numbers are not where the problems come about.

I am assuming that by "they" you mean medical doctors saying that the pain is from diabetic neuropathy? Sounds more like they are just jumping on the easiest answer, you have diabetes, maybe have type 2 and everybody knows that neuropathy follows. It does not automatically follow. You have to abuse it a lot to get neuropathy.

Your fasting numbers are surely not in the type 2 range. You did say that you felt they were in the pre-diabetes range - I don't think you will find pre-diabetics or very early type 2 diabetics with neuropathy.

Just my opinion - as humble as it may be

type 2 - dx 12/04
metformin 500mg 3x - avandia 2mg 2x

3
Desert, not to start and argument here, but I was diagnosed with 'borderline' diabetes years ago, back when they used that stupid term, and have had mild neuropathy in my hands and feet for almost 20 years... I used to feel the bath water with my hand or foot and when I got in would be almost scalded. Actually went and got myself a bath thermometer!

It's been my experience (just me here, not speaking for the masses) that neuropathy, constant thirst and other symptoms can show up long before the diagnosis of diabetes is given. Just my experience...

And the worst of it is itching under the skin of my feet and hands that cannot be scratched!!! Drives me up a wall!

~ Jeannie

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."

- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

4

Hi quahog,

Well, you should find out what your glucose tolerance test was/is!!  You could very well be showing normal fasting numbers but have blood sugar spikes that remain very high for long enough time to do damage to you and this may have been going on for some time, hence the neuropathy!  The Neuropathy doesn't just happen overnight, and it could be a result of your CP, but if your Glucose tolerance test was way out of wack, well that may be pointing to the culprit.

scool Warren

It's not that some people have willpower and some don't. It's that some people are ready to change and others are not. - James Gordon, M.D.
What some call health, if purchased by perpetual anxiety about diet, isn't much better than tedious disease. - George Dennison Prentice

I can only please one person per day, today is not your day...tomorrow doesn't look good either.

5
Jeannie - Did you say that you wanted to fight about this or did you say that you don't want to fight - well, not today and not on this subject. I have researched some more after reading your post. All I get is wish--washy information. Good information but lot of "things usually happens this way - but there is evidenc that this happens and others report this happening this way, but only usually in older patients,etc, etc" I did read that there is a 'theory' that neuropathy can occure before any other symptoms of diabetes while most thought(well,the couple I actually read) seems to be on long term hyperglycemic conditions thoery. What it comes down to "they" don't really know for sure. The exceptions to the rule seem to be as varied as the different opinions tht make up the rule. My biggest problem with any of these theories is the profession that makes them - they are shamefully behind in the diabetes curve. Don't get me wrong I am not putting myself on that knowledge curve at all. You read over and over where very qualified doctors make the most stupid statements and fail to treat the simplist of situations properly.

What Warren just stated is typical and I would agree, except I just read where neuropathy can happen overnight. What are we to believe? I believe that you have experienced it early in your diabetes - why, because you said that you did. I do finding myself following the general thinking even though I don't follow the general approach to treating it or what is normal, go figure.

Sorry about the lack of any desire to fight over this - wrong subject for me and certainly not enough knowledge to stand my ground. I know you don't want to fight on any subject........not really.

type 2 - dx 12/04
metformin 500mg 3x - avandia 2mg 2x

6
I neglected to mention one thing... If I had been tested with today's standards when my symptoms first occurred I would have been diagnosed as diabetic. I wish that back then they had more agressive about prevention and treatment. My last baby was over nine pounds and I have experienced excessive thirst for most of my adult life. Well, DUH! Sometimes I want to post a bumper sticker on the wall above every drinking fountain I see that says, "Always thirsty? Get checked for diabetes!" That and the stupid TV commercials for 'feminine itching' creams... Hello! The itching is often caused by a skin yeast colony that is thriving on sugar from urine or perspiration! Do they include that in their little ads or on the label? NO! I want cautionary statements that state, "Excessive and persistant itching can be a sign of diabetes."

In my bakery my children often were stuck with pan washing and they always complained that the water was too hot... I figured they were just wimps... until I was diagnosed and realized they were telling the truth.. I hadn't been able to feel the burning of the water and because of this I went on to do more silent damage to the nerves in my hands with too hot water. Bless their hearts, they all forgave me and every Mother's day I get brand new, extra thick professional oven mitts because my neuropathy has progressed to the point that I can get burns thru thin spots on my mitts and not feel it right away... It's rather disconcerting to find blisters on your fingers and not know when they occurred.

My diabetes was discovered by an optometrist at a cheap glasses shop. I have a little anger about my dx because in the beginning my old doc just was very casual about the fact that my sugars were 'a little high' so I should avoid sugar.... He never told me it was progressive, he never gave me the tools I needed to slow down this disease. It wasn't until I started to have vision changes that he did some serious fasting glucose testing. I had 'borderline' numbers (now I guess they call them pre-diabetic) for years but he never told me where this was heading. This may explain why I am so ornery about peeps who act like "Oh, my numbers are a little high... but it's not that bad..." Been there, done that and have the neuropathy and glasses to prove it! And those are just the outward things I can see.... I also have some kidney damage and coronary artery disease from my sugar that was 'just a little high'....

Ok, I'm done with my rant... and no, desert, I don't want to fight... You're one of my buddies here... You are in the same war against diabetes that I am... One day at a time.

~ Jeannie

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."

- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

7

Sorry for the delay in posting back it is just that I have been so busy.

Anyway, thank you for all the information.    I do think that I may have discovered why my meter readings are erroneous.   I originally use a freestyle flash, I ran out of test strips, and switched to an Accu-check advantage my wife had from awhile back, it did not dawn on me to check the test strips to see if they were out of code but of course, they were.  nono   Therefore, when I was finally able to pick up some strips for the flash I noticed my numbers were better, much better.  90-95 Fasting and 110-130 two hours after eating. I am still testing to find high readings but so far, there have not been any. Of course, this could all be related to my daily exercise routine and diet. I am now walking up to 3 miles a day and performing modified exercises that are safe for my lower back, hips, neck to which I also have CP issues with.   My BMI has gone from 33% to 29%!!!!  I've lost 30lbs.!!!!!!  In addition, my blood pressure has normalized but I still have a ways to go.   Truth be told I am paying for all of this activity in terms of increased pain but to me it is well worth it in order to get to my goal of 180-200lbs.

It seems to me that I have upset Jeanie with my last post and if I have then I do apologize.  I am not saying my lower numbers could not cause neuropathy but I do have DDD and some herniated discs in my lower back and neck so I am thinking that might be the cause.  When I was seeing a neurologist, he performed an A1C test and it was 5.5.  He then suggested that although diabetes may be an issue in the future he did not think it was cause of these issues.   Personally I am not sure what to think if diabetes has caused the neuropathy, wouldn’t I see some higher levels at least some of the time?

Thank you again and if I have upset anyone I am sorry

Glenn

 

 

Post Edited (quahog) : 6/24/2006 12:32:34 AM (GMT-6)

8
Glenn,
You have not upset me at all... tongue I am frustrated with this disease and the lack of knowlege in the general public about diabetes, that's all. Mostly I'm mad at myself for sticking my head in the sand and not educating myself in the begining.

Neuropathy can be caused by other things besides diabetes. Your numbers look like normal numbers to me... If those were my numbers I'd be looking elsewhere for the cause and working on that. Just my personal opinion.

~ Jeannie

"People are like stained glass windows: They sparkle and shine when the sun's out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light within."

- Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

9
Glenn,

Your progress sounds good. No matter the cause what you are doing will help with your overall health. The painful part of doing it is discourging, but you are sticking with it - that says a lot about you. I know people that even a little pain and they refulse to endure it, at all. They don't progress well and end up paining in the end. I am sure everyone gets tired of hearing my Pollyanna approach to how a diabetic diet and excercise si a win-win situaltion even if you don't have diabetes. Most people do eat poorly without the bad side effects that we have - going to a good diet can only be good for you.

Your A1c indicates that you are in the pre-daibetic range. That does not mean that you will become diabetic automatically, not at all - just another risk factor to consider. I believe the technical term would be Impared Glucose Tollerance. Bringing our BMI down to <25 and your weight down to your target range will do a lot for that cndition and I would think it would help with your other conditions, though that is just a my guess.(you know my pollyanna thinking)

about Jeannie - anybody that can work all day long with enough sugar to kill every diabetic in the free world and not eat any of it has to be super tough and have great self control. She did not say anything that just referred to you, she was saying what a lot of us think and that is not aimed at anyone in particular, just life.

type 2 - dx 12/04
metformin 500mg 3x - avandia 2mg 2x

10

Hi glen,

Well for my 2 cents worth your numbers are fine.  You do have some weight issues that will definately cause you multiple health problems down the line unless you get it under control, and diabetes is one of those problems you can't entirely rule out.

Im going to recommend a book: Pain Free : A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain by Pete Egoscue.  It has some really good advice and should fit right into what you are doing now to help you lose weight, but may also help you mitigate the chronic pain and decrease your reliance on meds. 

Hope this helps

scool Warren

It's not that some people have willpower and some don't. It's that some people are ready to change and others are not. - James Gordon, M.D.
What some call health, if purchased by perpetual anxiety about diet, isn't much better than tedious disease. - George Dennison Prentice

I can only please one person per day, today is not your day...tomorrow doesn't look good either.