Hoping I can make it a few hours longer after posting before this thread is closed(I think I might have set a new record with my last thread ;) ), This is certainly OT to PCa(except for the saying "healthy diet is also good for prostate), but since we have been discussing "what are we eating" in more than one thread, I just read this which relates to that subject and was, at the least, interesting for me. I don't know if this doctor is correct or not, but she certainly has an outlook not shared by most of our doctors and dieticians. Actually, the real subject of this particular article by her is mainly dealing with mental health vs diet. It discusses in detail various nutrients we need in relationship the the brain and nervous system, and what foods we get those nutrients from. It is not a short article, but I will just quote the closing paragraphs: www.diagnosisdiet.com/micronutrients-mental-health/?utm_source=Diagnosis+Diet+Website+Subscribers&utm_campaign=4435b2d32a-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_09_05&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9c1de9d3bb-4435b2d32a-78668465
Somebody said...
Are Carefully-supplemented Vegan Diets Perfectly Healthy?
I don’t think anyone knows the answer to this question. My personal take on supplements is that the human body is best-adapted to obtaining nutrients from whole foods, and we are probably healthiest when we use that strategy. We may not be well-adapted to processing isolated nutrients in pill form once a day, but supplements are a critically important strategy for those who choose plant-based diets, don’t have access to high-quality animal foods (much of the developing world), or have health issues that interfere with normal digestion and absorption of nutrients from whole foods. I will be addressing the issue of supplementation in more detail in future posts.
The Bottom Line: The Brain Needs Meat
There are many valid, respectable, understandable reasons to choose a vegan diet, but as far as I can tell, better health is not one of them. That being said, given everything I have learned about how plants operate within the human body, the only meat-eaters who may be able to claim a “healthier than thou” stance in comparison to plant-eaters are the ones who don’t eat any plants at all. But this is not a contest—it is a search for understanding. My study of nutrition has convinced me that red meat, poultry and seafood are the most nutritious foods for the human brain (and body). So, if you’re only avoiding meat because you think you’ll be healthier without it, I am here to tell you that I find no evidence that eating meat is risky. In fact, everything I’ve read indicates that NOT eating meat is risky. So, enjoy that juicy, nutrient-dense, antinutrient-free steak, duck, salmon or oyster. Doctor’s orders😊
Former Vegetarian here, not Vegan. I was a vegetarian for 22 years and my understanding is that you can get everything from a vegetarian diet EXCEPT one thing. That is if you eat it in the proper proportions and quantities.
But that one thing is B12, is not found in plant products. "Some substantial sources of B12 include animal products (shellfish, meat), fortified food products, and dietary supplements." per Wikipedia
You could I guess eat mass quantities of bacteria but then you aren't a Vegan anymore.PSA at age 49, 4.0 NO ref by PCP PSA at diagnosis 20.6, age 54 in 2013, 12 out of 12 cores positive My PSA Curve , DRE negative but firm, prostate volume 51.56 Degarelix shot 10/13, Robotic 11/13, Degarelix shot 12/13, EBRT June 2015, local GS 9 - 4+5 , Stage pT3b N1 Lupron vacay 6/16, 9/16 <0.1, 4/17 0.18, 5/17 0.18, 07/17 0.30
Veganism was created by space aliens. It's purpose is to weaken us before their planed invasion in 2021 when they plan to take all cows, pigs and chickens on earth with them to their home planet.I'll be in the shop. Age 57, 52 at DX PSA: 4.2 10/11, 1.9 6/12, 1.2 12/12, 1.0 5/13, .6 11/13, .7 5/14, .5 10/14, .5 4/15, .3 10/15, .3 4/16, .4 10/16, .4 5/17 G 3+4 Stage T1C 2 out of 14 cores positive Treatment IGRT - 2/2012 My latest blog post
Meat eating is behind the success of human evolution. Learning to hunt was a decisive step in our evolution. The hunt demanded communication, planning and hunting tools, which required a bigger brain. The addition of meat in the diet made it possible to develop this larger brain.
alephnull said... Former Vegetarian here, not Vegan. I was a vegetarian for 22 years and my understanding is that you can get everything from a vegetarian diet EXCEPT one thing. That is if you eat it in the proper proportions and quantities.
But that one thing is B12, is not found in plant products. "Some substantial sources of B12 include animal products (shellfish, meat), fortified food products, and dietary supplements." per Wikipedia
You could I guess eat mass quantities of bacteria but then you aren't a Vegan anymore.
I'm not the one to argue vegan(or vegetarian) vs meat, even if I am not vegan. I can see good arguments for both. I just thought this was a fun article, in the way it makes such an "in your face" and aggressive claim for the opposite of vegan when it comes to health. Specifically brain health in this particular article.
However, about "EXCEPT one thing", for sure B12 is one. But what about K2, A and EPA/DHA? I know you are supposed to be able to get the last 2 by conversion from their plant versions, but it is argued by some(for ex: this article) that process is extremely inefficient and leads to deficiencies. But what about K2, is there a non-animal source for that? ( although, I think certain fermented vegetables can provide it, like Natto)
My son kids me because I am vegetarian for a couple of decades or so. He said do you know it takes many acres of grass to grow one cow, which is very tough on the environment? What is he doing to protect the environment? He eats the cow!65 YO healthy man, PSA 4.1/2 for couple years PSA 5/1/17 4.6, Multiparametric MRI, 5/15/17 showed lesion. 13 core biopsy 3 positive 3+3 and one positive in lesion, may be overlap All cores less than 30% 8/22/17 - second opinion Yale pathology shows small amount of (3+4) in one core, < 5%, ordered decipher to inform next steps Leaning towards Active Surveillance. Thanks, Denis
Every vegan I've seen look like they are half-dead.DX - 1-13-2015 (age 66) -- PSA 4.02 (9-16-2014) to 4.38 (12-5-2014) RALP on March 2, 2015 G6 to G7(3+4) to G7(4+3) Stage pT3aN1 06/2017 PSA < 0.1 7/31/2015 HT - six month's injection of Lupron ART 11/2015, 33 sessions
I choose to remain a second hand vegan.....the cow eats the grass and I eat the cow.PSA 59 on 8-26-2010 age 60. Biopsy 9-8-2010 12/12 positive, 20-80% involved, PNI in 3 cores, G 3+3,3+4,and 4+3=G7, T2b. Eligard and Jalyn started on 10-7-2010. IMRT to prostate and lymph nodes started on 11-8-2010, HDR Brachytherapy December 6 and 13, 2010. PSA < .1 since February 2011
I am reading 'How not to die" by Greger, and he makes a strong case for plant based diet. Good book. He looks at the main maladies we face and discusses research on the diet side for each one, just started the chapter on the prostate. Denis65 YO healthy man, PSA 4.1/2 for couple years PSA 5/1/17 4.6, Multiparametric MRI, 5/15/17 showed lesion. 13 core biopsy 3 positive 3+3 and one positive in lesion, may be overlap All cores less than 30% 8/22/17 - second opinion Yale pathology shows small amount of (3+4) in one core, < 5%, ordered decipher to inform next steps Leaning towards Active Surveillance. Thanks, Denis
JNF said... I choose to remain a second hand vegan.....the cow eats the grass and I eat the cow.
There ya' go! Just grilled some pork steaks last night .DX - 1-13-2015 (age 66) -- PSA 4.02 (9-16-2014) to 4.38 (12-5-2014) RALP on March 2, 2015 G6 to G7(3+4) to G7(4+3) Stage pT3aN1 06/2017 PSA < 0.1 7/31/2015 HT - six month's injection of Lupron ART 11/2015, 33 sessions
mattamx said... "So you're going Vegan?" I can imagine our prehistory ancestors having a good laugh about that.
Do we even come close to living the lives that are "prehistory ancestors" experienced?
I think our "prehistory" ancestors would get a bigger laugh at how we spend our days before we eat that big steak.... Usually sitting down in front of some type of electronic screen... and then the "exercise" for the day consists of walking to the bathroom or copy machine... and then we drive to restaurant to have a butchered hormone-injected cow dipped in butter and then thrown on a grill... because we've "earned" it.
Meat eating fits a lifestyle that is completely removed from the western world in the 21st century.
I still find it interesting that "humans were meant to eat meat," but yet we're the only mammals that have to cook it over an open fire before we can actually consume it.Age 52 at Dx - 8/17 (5th biopsy); MSKCC - NYC 2 /14 cores: right base medial, G6 (3+3), 1%, linear amt. 0.1mm; right apex medial, G6 (3+3), 3%, linear amt. 0.5mm 6/17, Pre-biopsy: Prostate MRI (MR PROST PRE TREAT W/O CON) - PI-RADS v2 score 3 - no lesions or adenopathy Prostate size: 6.4x3.4 x3.8 cm; vol. 43 cc PSA at Dx: 6.19, fPSA = 23% Currently on MSKCC's Active Surveillance (AS) program.
As a young mom, I donated breast milk to the breast milk bank. While they were screening me for disease (HIV, TB, Hepatitis, etc) before accepting my donations, they also confirmed that I was not a vegan. I asked them why they needed to know that...apparently they are unable to accept donated milk from vegan mothers because their milk is severely deficient in Vitamin B12. I found that pretty fascinating...and everything I've read since has confirmed that there's really no way to get enough B12 without some animal based food or supplement.
We've been trying to focus on eating more vegetables rather than specifically eating less meat. Filling the plate with veggies so there's less room for meat, if you will...but I don't think we'll ever give it up....Husband Dx 2/2017 age 57 no symptoms PSA 6.4 12/12 cores positive - 10 Gleason 7, 2 Gleason 9 (4+5) bone scan clean, MRI shows no evidence of mets, F18 PET scan clean PNI present Stage 3a Casodex/Lupron started 3/2017. 8/2017 Zytiga added in place of casodex. HDR Brachy 5/23/17 at UCLA with Dr. Demanes 25 sessions IMRT with Dr. Ash at St. Joe's completed 7/10/17
Of course as we all really know it is all about food diversity, moderation and balance. As H4H so aptly stated, we balance our diet with our lifestyle. And this isn't just about the consumption of animal tissue. Any food eaten in too great a quantity will cause problems. And many foods not eaten will too cause problems.
Our forefathers in the prehistoric days ate anything and everything that was available. After all they ate oysters. Why was the first one eaten? Because someone was starving and that was all that was available. It was really hard staying alive. Surely they had their favorites, but how often were they available? And a big steak? Certainly when it was available. Hunting was hard work and very hit or miss. What did the cave men call a vegan back in the day? A failed hunter!!PSA 59 on 8-26-2010 age 60. Biopsy 9-8-2010 12/12 positive, 20-80% involved, PNI in 3 cores, G 3+3,3+4,and 4+3=G7, T2b. Eligard and Jalyn started on 10-7-2010. IMRT to prostate and lymph nodes started on 11-8-2010, HDR Brachytherapy December 6 and 13, 2010. PSA < .1 since February 2011
Hope, My post was jokish but also meant to have a ring of truth. As a philosophical/ethical pursuit, I respect the Vegan diet. As a healthy diet, not so much. JNF's post nicely summed up my thoughts. I would add that our sense of taste places a premium on sweet and fatty tasting foods, probably because they were rare and nutritionally valuable commodities way back then. Since those types of foods are commonly available now, people can get into trouble by over indulging. As has been said several times, variety and moderation.The tragic recommendations of the USPSTF led me to where I am. Dx: April 2015, Age 54, pT3bN0MX Initial PSA: 20.8 Bx: All cores high volume G7 (4+3) Bone scan and MRI: clear RALP: June 2015 Pathology: G8 (4+4), focal areas of 5; Positive margins; 3 Nodes negative Adj. IMRT: Aug 2015 PSA nadir: 0.1 Steady PSA increase. Recent PSA: 5.3 CT and bone scans, July 2017: Both clear
No. I don't believe so at all. And why would one want to be one. Man was designed to eat both meat and plants.Not sure what became of my signature? Didn't realize it disappeared.
.