I just came across glycerin as a base for extracts, and from what I gather, it is a bit less effective, but it is significantly cheaper. I pay $44 for 1.75 liters of Everclear 190 proof. The bottle keeps shrinking and the price increasing. But I can get organic glycerin for about $27 per gallon. I would have to use some 50% more, but still...
Another advantage is its ability to macerate at temperature. I have an electric pressure cooker with a 140d keep warm function. And I understand that three days is all it takes to produce a finished extract that way. That would help with inventory control.
Any thoughts?
good on you for making your own tinctures
unfortunately for most plant compounds glycerine will be a far inferior solvent vs water and alcohol mixtures
water is an excellent solvent for polar chemicals and alcohol a very good solvent for almost everything else - which is why the two work together so well.
together they have good coverage of most plant compounds - and with ethanol and water we have traditional herbalism as references for what works in terms of recipes
if switching to glycerine - we simply don't have much data on which compounds would be soluble - what recipes to use - or how much to compensate for dosage etc
i know you mention you could heat the mixture to increase solubility - and this may work for some compounds but others are heat sensitive - berberine for instance starts to break down at temperatures as low as 60 degrees Celsius short term - and again data here is often sparse
commercially available glycerine tincture are more gimmick than medicine in my view - responding to a market opportunity to sell product - without having to demonstrate efficacy
overall i think whatever savings might be there in terms of reduced cost of solvent would be more than offset by needing to increase dose and amount of herb used to compensate.
one avenue that may be worth looking into is the law on buying duty free spirits for medicinal use in your country / state
in mine there is a scheme that allows the purchase of alcohol duty free if its to be used for the manufacture of medicines including herbal medicines.
there are some record keeping and process requirements - but this allows me to by 25litre drums of 96% ethanol for a few pounds per litre
i hope its of some help
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
unfortunately for most plant compounds glycerine will be a far inferior solvent vs water and alcohol mixtures
water is an excellent solvent for polar chemicals and alcohol a very good solvent for almost everything else - which is why the two work together so well.
together they have good coverage of most plant compounds - and with ethanol and water we have traditional herbalism as references for what works in terms of recipes
if switching to glycerine - we simply don't have much data on which compounds would be soluble - what recipes to use - or how much to compensate for dosage etc
i know you mention you could heat the mixture to increase solubility - and this may work for some compounds but others are heat sensitive - berberine for instance starts to break down at temperatures as low as 60 degrees Celsius short term - and again data here is often sparse
commercially available glycerine tincture are more gimmick than medicine in my view - responding to a market opportunity to sell product - without having to demonstrate efficacy
overall i think whatever savings might be there in terms of reduced cost of solvent would be more than offset by needing to increase dose and amount of herb used to compensate.
one avenue that may be worth looking into is the law on buying duty free spirits for medicinal use in your country / state
in mine there is a scheme that allows the purchase of alcohol duty free if its to be used for the manufacture of medicines including herbal medicines.
there are some record keeping and process requirements - but this allows me to by 25litre drums of 96% ethanol for a few pounds per litre
i hope its of some help
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
Thank you, Garzie, that is a big help. I've been burning through a lot of extract lately, and inventory control has become more of a challenge. So the fast maceration time is very appealing. At the least, I think it will be handy as a stopgap measure. I probably will get a gallon of the glycerin and see how it goes.
I did look into getting tax-exempt status for ethanol a couple years back, but it seemed to be quite involved. I probably should reevaluate.
Thanks again.
I did look into getting tax-exempt status for ethanol a couple years back, but it seemed to be quite involved. I probably should reevaluate.
Thanks again.
good luck - report back on your findings
the application for tax free ethanol was not too involved for me
it was written as though they were expecting you to be a manufacturing and selling a product as a for profit company - but there was no actual requirement to do so
from memory it was a form and a small plan of where it was going to be stored and used ( they want it to be stored in a lockable location - which isn't unreasonable )
i just labelled a floor plan of the house and sent that
well worth it in my case as i have been taking many of buhner's herbs for lyme and co-infections for many years
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
the application for tax free ethanol was not too involved for me
it was written as though they were expecting you to be a manufacturing and selling a product as a for profit company - but there was no actual requirement to do so
from memory it was a form and a small plan of where it was going to be stored and used ( they want it to be stored in a lockable location - which isn't unreasonable )
i just labelled a floor plan of the house and sent that
well worth it in my case as i have been taking many of buhner's herbs for lyme and co-infections for many years
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
Here are Grok's instructions for heated extracts. Depending on the herb, it could take mere HOURS for the finished product!
https://postimg.cc/wddvn60b
https://postimg.cc/wddvn60b
i certainly hear you on the benefits of reducing the processing time and therefore all the inventory - its quite a chore to keep up
however - if it were me - before committing - i would look to the scientific literature for something meaningful on relative solubilities of the compounds i am interested in
otherwise although potentially faster - as i mentioned - we have no way of knowing if you need to consume 2x the quantity to offset the lower solubility, or heat damage, depending on method used, thereby defeating the object.
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
however - if it were me - before committing - i would look to the scientific literature for something meaningful on relative solubilities of the compounds i am interested in
otherwise although potentially faster - as i mentioned - we have no way of knowing if you need to consume 2x the quantity to offset the lower solubility, or heat damage, depending on method used, thereby defeating the object.
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
Agree. But I am going to give it a go. I'll get back with what I find.
It would be nice to know that even taking twice the amount of a glyceride would be an equivalent, but I'm getting the feeling that certain constituents aren't even extracted via glyceride (or very small amounts) vs alcohol??
Ok, my first batch is done. I slow-cooked it in the instant pot on 'keep warm'. I let it go three days +, only because I didn't feel up to dealing with it.
It is really nice knowing I can make an extract in a couple of days. It takes the pressure off worrying about inventory.
The biggest logistical hurdle is that, the glycerin being syrupy, straining the finished product can be a gooey mess. I use a manual medium-duty citrus press, and a larger hydraulic job would be a lot better I'm sure, but they are not cheap. The gooeyness depends on the herb's degree of being mucilaginous. So Sida, for instance, is on the bad side. Crypto wasn't much of a problem. But I read that water can be added to the finished product if necessary. I also believe that I will get better at controlling the process, both proportions and post-processing, with practice.
As for quality, the only one I've used as yet is cryptolepis, and I have no complains about efficacy. Perhaps it's because I now add a touch of vinegar to the mix (thanks to Garzie for the tip), but this crypto actually has more pungency than my ethyl version.
So I'm seriously thinking of switching to glycerin, and at the least I will certainly be trying some more batches with it.
It is really nice knowing I can make an extract in a couple of days. It takes the pressure off worrying about inventory.
The biggest logistical hurdle is that, the glycerin being syrupy, straining the finished product can be a gooey mess. I use a manual medium-duty citrus press, and a larger hydraulic job would be a lot better I'm sure, but they are not cheap. The gooeyness depends on the herb's degree of being mucilaginous. So Sida, for instance, is on the bad side. Crypto wasn't much of a problem. But I read that water can be added to the finished product if necessary. I also believe that I will get better at controlling the process, both proportions and post-processing, with practice.
As for quality, the only one I've used as yet is cryptolepis, and I have no complains about efficacy. Perhaps it's because I now add a touch of vinegar to the mix (thanks to Garzie for the tip), but this crypto actually has more pungency than my ethyl version.
So I'm seriously thinking of switching to glycerin, and at the least I will certainly be trying some more batches with it.
well done and thanks for the update
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
ill since Feb 2015 – Lyme (Armin), Mycoplasma Pn, suspected Bart
Bart now conclusively diagnosed by microscopy see https://tinyurl.com/2eatxxz7
60% recovered - most useful approaches:
=Wholefood Keto Diet
=Exercise – initially walking – now weights too
=Buhner Lyme herbs and co-infect herbs
=Immune modulation- Ivermectin and LDN
=Methylene Blue (Bart)
+T4 and T3 for thyroid
Definitely enjoying being able to make extracts in three days. It takes the pressure off inventory control. Making the extracts, expecially straining them, is messier.
But I've come across another problem. Glycerine causes diarrhea, dehydration and bloating. I've read that .3 tbsp per hour is sufficient for this. I take one tbsp per 4 hours, so that's close. And even though my mix is still mostly alcohol-based, I have started having problems.
But I've come across another problem. Glycerine causes diarrhea, dehydration and bloating. I've read that .3 tbsp per hour is sufficient for this. I take one tbsp per 4 hours, so that's close. And even though my mix is still mostly alcohol-based, I have started having problems.
I will have to revert to alcohol-based, and I will use the glycerin when in a (time) bind.
Hi, I have tried both and I stuck with alcohol tinctures - I only have one cryptolepis glycerin tincture - I believe ethanol is a medium that can extract more potently the active substances from herbs - but it is like playing with poisonous snake - even I pour hot water on it - there is some reisdue and I dont want to cultivate acloholism.